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Dalziel  
#1 Posted : 11 August 2014 14:55:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dalziel

Hi, I am looking for some advice. My company have this morning taken on a number of apprentices, a mixture of both joiners and plumbers. During one of the site inductions, one of the apprentice joiners advised the site manager that he suffered from cystic fibrosis. This was news to both the site manager and myself as we had not been made aware of this prior to this site induction. The HR Manager who interviewed and started the apprentices is off this week on holiday, so at present we have no means of finding out if he had been advised of this prior to today. Regardless however, this was not made known to either of us. I'm just wondering if anyone has had any similar experience of this? I'm trying to get my head round how, now that we have given the apprentice the opportunity to come and work for us, we now develop and implement the level of control measures necessary in order not to aggravate the employees health further, whilst still allowing him the opportunity of undertaking an apprenticeship and carrying out the work activities which will be expected of this role. I have currently contacted our Occ. Health provider for advice and awaiting them to return my call. Cheers.
Manion16110  
#2 Posted : 11 August 2014 16:18:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Manion16110

Doug please contact me to discuss. Jeff Manion Chair of IOSH SIG Construction. Have in depth knowledge of CF.
fscott  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2014 16:42:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott

If like me when I first encountered this condition you have very little understanding about what it is and how it can affect people, you should have a look at the Cystic Fibrosis Trust website. My encounter with the condition was with an admin worker so my experience won't probably help much although the one thing I will say is that where a healthy person can continue to work effectively with illnesses such as the common cold, it can have a very different effect on someone who has CF and therefore I guess you will need to put in place a reasonable adjustment which would allow a greater level of absence. You obviously are going to have to carefully manage all controls relating to respiratory protection including verification that they are a) the most suitable available, b) they are working effectively and c) that they are being used properly by all employees. Although a young person, I'd fully get him on board in all your discussions from day one as he will have a great deal of understanding about his condition and how to manage it. Depending on his age and the individual, it may also be deemed appropriate to involved his parents in these discussions although as he is over the school leaving age I don't believe you have any legal obligations to do so. It would be interesting to hear how you manage this problem from a learning point of view.
Dalziel  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2014 17:06:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dalziel

Thanks for the replies gents. Jeff, I will be in touch tomorrow (am), thanks also for your kind offer. At present, we are still awaiting the response from our Occ. Health provider which I will chase up first thing tomorrow morning. The site manager however has had a chat with the apprentice this afternoon to discuss the environment in which he is entering into in order to make him fully aware of the tasks he will be carrying out and the conditions he will be working in etc. He has also contacted the apprentices mother to explain same and to discuss his situation and the activities and work conditions will be imposed on him as part of his new job role. His mother stated that whilst she had concerns about him wanting to enter into the construction industry, this is the career path that her son wanted to take and as such, she did not want to deny him the opportunity outright without him having the chance to try it out and see how he fared. The apprentice stated to the site manager that he is currently of good health and has never been admitted to hospital as a result of his medical condition. He also states that he has a "Blue Vent" pump which he keeps with himself at all times in the event this is required --- I have to be honest here and admit I'm not too sure what exactly a "Blue Vent" pump is, although I'm assuming it is something similar to an asthma inhaler? The site manager has also spoken to the two time-served joiners on site who the apprentice will be working with to explain and make them aware of the apprentices medical condition. This situation only came to light shortly after lunch this afternoon and as yet I've not had a chance to get to the site to speak to the apprentice directly myself at present, however I will be visiting tomorrow to do so with the intention of developing a personal risk assessment document, based on my findings and the advice I receive from the Occ. Health provider.
L McCartney  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2014 17:18:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
L McCartney

Hi Doug, there will be a cf support group website where you'll get lots of info though I think Jeff above will have more practical information and guidance. Maybe should change interview question - asking HR when you can ask as it should have been disclosed before employment so that you could make reasonable adjustments and get advice prior to starting. Also as above the Equalities Act has provision for possible sickness absence and hospital appointments etc - guess I'm just repeating what you already know. Lilian
fscott  
#6 Posted : 12 August 2014 10:05:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott

L McCartney wrote:
Hi Doug, Maybe should change interview question - asking HR when you can ask as it should have been disclosed before employment so that you could make reasonable adjustments and get advice prior to starting. Also as above the Equalities Act has provision for possible sickness absence and hospital appointments etc - guess I'm just repeating what you already know. Lilian
Lilian, Due to the Equality Act it is now against the law to ask medical questions prior to a job offer being made other than for the following purposes: - to help decide if reasonable adjustments are needed in the selection process - to determine if an applicant can carry out a function that is essential to the job such as heavy lifting, or - for diversity monitoring purposes. It is possible to make a job offer conditional to satisfactory medical reports being received but subsequent withdrawal of an offer would be very risky. I'd agree however that appropriate procedures should be put in place so that this kind of thing was known about prior to his starting date to ensure appropriate control measures and/or reasonable adjustments could be put in place so as not to jeopardise this young man's health any further than it all ready is. CIPD has some useful information on this at http://www.cipd.co.uk/hr...questionnaire-check.aspx
L McCartney  
#7 Posted : 12 August 2014 12:23:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
L McCartney

Hi fscott, that's what I said - to ask HR when the question could be asked. You can (and probably good practice to) have the jobs risk assessments present at the interview or the application pack and ask if there is any reason that the person could not do any of these tasks or would require adjustments. There are certain job roles that there are certain medical conditions prevents the person being employed as this would be a risk to their health so best to know as soon as possible and not have the persons expectations raised. Agree care with all of this, that's why HR should have their input. If the person has said that they understand the risk assessments and can see no reason for not being able to do the work with the identified risks and it turns out that they have an existing medical condition which would adversely affect them then you are able to terminate their employment on these grounds - if that's what you want to do - or offer them another position. It's all a bit tricky but where there is just cause H&S legislation will over-rule the Equalities Act but it must be defendable and not just that its too much bother. In my experience it's usually relatively easy to make reasonable adjustments and the majority have worked out well.
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 12 August 2014 12:39:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

your HR dept appears to heve let you and the production team down as they should have given info to the interviewers before the job advertisements went out
Dalziel  
#9 Posted : 12 August 2014 16:32:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dalziel

Yes, I completely agree Bob and I can assure you, I will be making this point to our HR Manager on his return from holiday on Monday! Also, thanks for our chat earlier Jeff, again it was appreciated. Anyway, an update... I visited the site earlier today and spoke with the apprentice along with the site manager, explaining to him that the company had his best interests at heart, stating that we were seeking to ensure that the conditions he will be working in and the work activities he will be expected to carry out did not contribute or aggravate his existing medical condition. I also stated that we were trying to gain from him an understanding of his current medical condition, the symptoms he currently suffers from and how he controls these symptoms at present. To be honest, for such a young person living with the medical condition he is living with, he was a really chatty, positive, young man, very level headed and seemed to be taking his condition in his stride. He stated that his condition to date hasn't been holding him back, saying he is currently in good physical health - even playing football for a team and is of better fitness than a good few of his team mates who don't suffer from CF. He also stated that he has never been hospitalised as a result of his condition at any point in his life. At present, I am preparing a Personal Risk Assessment document based upon the information gained from the discussion with the employee which I intend providing a copy of to him to review and comment upon, and as he is under 18, also provide a copy to his parents for same. The main purpose of this document being to explain the condition, it's symptoms and the required control measures to our staff and employees, ensuring that these are implemented and made available on the sites as required. Needless to say, this will be held as a personal and confidential document, with it only being issued to those to whom it applies, including the site teams where the apprentice is being allocated to. In addition to the above, I've also now had word back from our Occ. Health provider who has made an appointment for him to visit for a referral at their offices in Glasgow next week. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I am covering all bases here, but until I can get anymore - professional - advice from our Occ. Health provider, I'm pretty much flying in the dark at present!
mikemait  
#10 Posted : 03 September 2014 21:32:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikemait

Hi Doug Possibly not relevant in your case but this may be of some use to others. My son has CF and a little lower down the health scale compared to your apprentice but despite that, is a competent highland bagpipe player, even with 70% lung capacity. Stamina can be an issue and breathlessness during chest infections can be a problem for many and in some cases they occur every few months. Good basic hygiene is important. My lad always carry’s hand gel and there should be a place to self-medicate or store medicines. There can be occasions when a small rucksack is required to carry a day's supply. Medication includes antibiotics, food supplements and CREON, an enzyme that helps digest fats and some types of medication will require a suitable room to administer. Many modern nebulisers are now battery operated and the process has reduced from 20 min to around 5 min but this can be performed up to several times a day. Cystic Fibrosis predominantly affects the lungs and digestive system and one embarrassing issue for a number of those with CF is bowel movements; they can be “industrial strength” and prolonged. Clean, accessible facilities should be readily available and sufficient to meet the task. The severity of the condition can vary remarkably between sufferers and from week to week, there is definitely not a one size fits all control measure. I hope your apprentice is enjoying his new work experience and all credit to you and your company for supporting this young man.
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