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gahan  
#1 Posted : 19 August 2014 10:37:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gahan

Following on from a post by LATCHY at the beginning of August does anyone have a simple straightforward process for RCA? I have tried a number of different formats but none of them are particularly straightforward. It is a very time consuming activity and if anyone has better way of doing it I would be interested to hear Thanks g
teh_boy  
#2 Posted : 19 August 2014 11:46:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

gahan  
#3 Posted : 19 August 2014 11:58:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gahan

Thanks, appreciated g
aud  
#4 Posted : 19 August 2014 12:03:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Have a look at www.thinkreliability.com who have lots of useful case studies and archived webinars using their own version of RCA plus 5 whys. Using their own 'cause mapping' technique can provide a single A3 sheet visually summarising everything to do with an incident - including solutions. No special software or array of shapes and types of arrows etc - I use post-it notes initially, and Excel can be used (they show how) to do a smart version. If I need to - keeps it simple and quick. The US accent can grate a little, but the process is logically mapped out. Start with their Titanic case study, see how they build it up in a webinar, and then look at a few other examples; they range from the financial crash (USA), to Concord. Anything where something has, or could have, gone wrong - doesn't have to be H&S specifically. They make the point (in one of their webinars) that there are lots of formal analysis processes, FTA, FMEA, RCA etc (the list was very long!) but they all boil down to analysing "what went wrong" and then "what can we do about it".
gahan  
#5 Posted : 19 August 2014 12:23:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
gahan

I am used to the American accent, just spent two weeks there listening to how they ruined the English language:) Appreciate the link, will spend some time this afternoon having a trawl through their website g
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 19 August 2014 15:10:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I went on an 4 day IOSH approved Accident Investigation and Evidence Gathering course last year. When I raised the subject of RCA I was told by the course provider that in contemporary investigation processes RCA is dead. In short, the focus is on latent issues associated multi-causality.
jontyjohnston  
#7 Posted : 19 August 2014 17:27:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jontyjohnston

gahan I am a Fellow of the Institute of Industrial Accident Investigators. PM me with your email and I will forward on some models we illustrate in our courses. There are a number, each with pros and cons, key is finding one that works for you, mine is an inverted logic diagram! Jonty
edwill7  
#8 Posted : 20 August 2014 13:15:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
edwill7

RayRapp wrote:
I went on an 4 day IOSH approved Accident Investigation and Evidence Gathering course last year. When I raised the subject of RCA I was told by the course provider that in contemporary investigation processes RCA is dead. In short, the focus is on latent issues associated multi-causality.
I would disagree with ther comment. RCA is extremely important in testing percieved (or required) causes. It also demonstrates how accidents are casued by the actions and decisions of others, some of which may be very remote from the process that casued the injury.
KieranD  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2014 13:59:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Gahan The question you raised - a simple straightforward process for RCA? - has been the focus of substantial research since it was first formally addressed by the author of attribution theory, Fritz Heider, in 1944, in terms of 'the fundamental attribution error'. A consensual answer amongst researchers would be to chose the process of RCA that has the highest level of validity in relation to the occurrence, the participants, observers and the purpose of your analysis. Two well-researched processes of attributional coding have been published to date: a. the Content Analysis of Verbatim Explanation (CAVE), which has 3 main dimensions b. the Leeds Attribution Coding System (LACS) with 5 main dimensions Reasonably simple and straightforward once you grasp the nature of the issues, about which James Reason is probably the best source in relation to safety at work
RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 28 August 2014 16:00:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

edwill7 wrote:
RayRapp wrote:
I went on an 4 day IOSH approved Accident Investigation and Evidence Gathering course last year. When I raised the subject of RCA I was told by the course provider that in contemporary investigation processes RCA is dead. In short, the focus is on latent issues associated multi-causality.
I would disagree with ther comment. RCA is extremely important in testing percieved (or required) causes. It also demonstrates how accidents are casued by the actions and decisions of others, some of which may be very remote from the process that casued the injury.
You are entitled to your opinion of course. I have always disliked the term Root Cause anyway, I prefer Immediate and Underlying Causes. Root Cause implies that there is one or one significant cause of the incident, which is rarely the case. A competent investigator will be aware of the complex interactions without resorting to RCA. There was a time when people were told to "stick to the facts." This is not case now either. Subjective/anecdotal comments are a legitimate means to express or understand the complex latent and active failures associated with many incidents.
cheifinspector  
#11 Posted : 04 September 2014 11:48:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cheifinspector

RayRapp wrote:
edwill7 wrote:
RayRapp wrote:
I went on an 4 day IOSH approved Accident Investigation and Evidence Gathering course last year. When I raised the subject of RCA I was told by the course provider that in contemporary investigation processes RCA is dead. In short, the focus is on latent issues associated multi-causality.
I would disagree with ther comment. RCA is extremely important in testing percieved (or required) causes. It also demonstrates how accidents are casued by the actions and decisions of others, some of which may be very remote from the process that casued the injury.
You are entitled to your opinion of course. I have always disliked the term Root Cause anyway, I prefer Immediate and Underlying Causes. Root Cause implies that there is one or one significant cause of the incident, which is rarely the case. A competent investigator will be aware of the complex interactions without resorting to RCA. There was a time when people were told to "stick to the facts." This is not case now either. Subjective/anecdotal comments are a legitimate means to express or understand the complex latent and active failures associated with many incidents.
Not true. A thorough investigation may well find that there was more than one root cause or it could be the case that a root cause can't be determined. By having only Immediate & Underlying causes and not going further to investigate the root cause, the chances of reoccurance are increased. Many times i have seen investigations where an underlying cause has been stated as a root cause usually due to a lack of understanding of what a root cause actually is. There are many systems out there (some better than others) that require you to determine a root cause. It is far from dead and certainly in my industry, the client always wants to know the root cause after an incident has occured.
achrn  
#12 Posted : 04 September 2014 12:04:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

cheifinspector wrote:
RayRapp wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion of course. I have always disliked the term Root Cause anyway, I prefer Immediate and Underlying Causes. Root Cause implies that there is one or one significant cause of the incident, which is rarely the case. A competent investigator will be aware of the complex interactions without resorting to RCA.
Not true. A thorough investigation may well find that there was more than one root cause or it could be the case that a root cause can't be determined. By having only Immediate & Underlying causes and not going further to investigate the root cause, the chances of reoccurance are increased. Many times i have seen investigations where an underlying cause has been stated as a root cause usually due to a lack of understanding of what a root cause actually is. There are many systems out there (some better than others) that require you to determine a root cause. It is far from dead and certainly in my industry, the client always wants to know the root cause after an incident has occured.
So what is a root cause if it's not a single underlying cause? If you're saying that there may be multiple root causes, but they aren't underlying causes (or the underlying causes are not root causes, but there are multiple root causes) that sounds to me more like an argument about semantics than about safety - if there's multiple similarly-significant root causes then they are underlying causes, to my mind, and there's littel benefit classifying one as a root cause if preventing any could have prevented the incident. Please clearly and unambiguously define what makes a root cause that means it isn't an underlying clause (and/or vice versa, of course, if that's what you mean). In my view, accidents are rarely as simple as any of these tidy classifications suggest. Grouping things into a group of underlying causes at least acknowledges that. If you turn to the venerable swiss cheese model, deciding which one slice was the root cause when any one of the slices could have prevented the accident is (at best) a waste of effort.
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 04 September 2014 13:07:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There is only one root cause- rubbish management: • If it’s a human error, it’s managements fault for recruiting the wrong staff, not training them or not supervising them • If it’s an equipment failure, it’s managements fault for buying the wrong kit, not operating it correctly or maintaining it properly • If it’s a systems failure well management put in the wrong systems • Etc I know it sounds harsh and some might feel that it is unfair but managements job is to manage the job whatever it is, whether it’s a bacon factory, a building site or a nuclear reactor. They have to take responsibility. They also have to learn the lessons of any failure and take appropriate action.
cheifinspector  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2014 13:10:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cheifinspector

Immediate Cause - The trigger(s) for the event without which that particular incident couldn't have happened. This may be a single event or a small number of events that started the incident Underlying Cause - The failures that contributed to the event happening and explain the occurence of the Immediate Causes. Root Cause - The most basic cause (or causes) that can reasonably be identified that management has control to fix and, when fixed, will prevent (or significantly reduce the likelihood of) the problem’s recurrence.
RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 04 September 2014 19:59:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

cheifinspector wrote:
Immediate Cause - The trigger(s) for the event without which that particular incident couldn't have happened. This may be a single event or a small number of events that started the incident Underlying Cause - The failures that contributed to the event happening and explain the occurence of the Immediate Causes. Root Cause - The most basic cause (or causes) that can reasonably be identified that management has control to fix and, when fixed, will prevent (or significantly reduce the likelihood of) the problem’s recurrence.
I cannot agree with some of the above comments but I also accept that I'm not necessarily right either. Immediate Cause - is the final act which followed before the incident, which reveals very litle about the causal factors which led up to the incident. Underlying Causes - failures which preceeded the incident, could be almost anything but typically behaviours, supervison, planning, training, competence, PPE, etc. Root Cause - it has no real relevance and is often subjective anyway. Not ALL incidents can be laid squarely at management's door. Someone doing something against their training or of their own folly can be unforeseeable and by defintion unpreventable.
Phil Roche  
#16 Posted : 05 September 2014 01:46:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Phil Roche

RayRapp wrote:
cheifinspector wrote:
Immediate Cause - The trigger(s) for the event without which that particular incident couldn't have happened. This may be a single event or a small number of events that started the incident Underlying Cause - The failures that contributed to the event happening and explain the occurence of the Immediate Causes. Root Cause - The most basic cause (or causes) that can reasonably be identified that management has control to fix and, when fixed, will prevent (or significantly reduce the likelihood of) the problem’s recurrence.
I cannot agree with some of the above comments but I also accept that I'm not necessarily right either. Immediate Cause - is the final act which followed before the incident, which reveals very litle about the causal factors which led up to the incident. Underlying Causes - failures which preceeded the incident, could be almost anything but typically behaviours, supervison, planning, training, competence, PPE, etc. Root Cause - it has no real relevance and is often subjective anyway. Not ALL incidents can be laid squarely at management's door. Someone doing something against their training or of their own folly can be unforeseeable and by defintion unpreventable.
Agree Ray, Our group moved away from the term root cause analysis a while back in favour of Causal Factors Analysis taking into account a number of areas. In line with various techniques and areas of study which has showed that there is rarely a single root cause that the event can be apportioned to. This taking into account the linkages between management/ system / organisational failures/ behaviour and the good old active and latent conditions which "cross paths" with a dash of good (or bad) timing.
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