Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Bob Shillabeer  
#1 Posted : 18 August 2014 19:11:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

In the South Wales Argus today, a Safety and Fire company was fined £40,000 for breaches of the RRFSO including a failure to carry out a fire risk assessment of the premises they operated from. That's a really good advert for their approach and possibly competence. The question is how many companies are operating with equal competence or disregard for fire safety?
Farrall900153  
#2 Posted : 19 August 2014 12:06:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Farrall900153

I don't have any hard statistics to hand but, being cynical, I'd suggest that 80% or more of companies either have no fire risk assessment at all, or have one which is simply a "tick box exercise", i.e. useless.

after all, if they didn't burst into flames yesterday then surely everything's OK and they can concentrate on the important aspects of the business? :0(
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2014 10:24:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

The case Bob refers to I think is

http://www.fia.uk.com/en...fire-regulation-breaches

A shop which had residential flats above it.

The fine, as expected, was imposed on a premises/business where there had been a fire (2012) and lives were at risk, one resident was hospitalised.

Ironic that the business was one of Fire Prevention !!! :o)) - oh I shouldn't laugh.

Getting to Farrall's point. Consider a case of premises where there wasn't a fire but the local fire services happened to visit and found there was no fire risk assessment and other breaches of RRFSO, would they be prosecuted?

JohnW
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 20 August 2014 10:57:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

John, in my experience the frs fire safety officer would offer advice to improve the fire precautions. In cases of severe lack of fire safety they would strike up a relationship with re-visits to the premises looking for improvements. Only if the advice was being blatantly ignored would they prosecute.

However where life is endangered for example in clubs where exits are locked and overcrowding is on the go the premises will be cleared with assistance of Police and prosecutions probable.

The case in Wales deserves prosecution if only because of stupidity.
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 20 August 2014 11:23:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

JohnW wrote:
The case Bob refers to I think is

http://www.fia.uk.com/en...fire-regulation-breaches

A shop which had residential flats above it.

The fine, as expected, was imposed on a premises/business where there had been a fire (2012) and lives were at risk, one resident was hospitalised.

Ironic that the business was one of Fire Prevention !!! :o)) - oh I shouldn't laugh.

Getting to Farrall's point. Consider a case of premises where there wasn't a fire but the local fire services happened to visit and found there was no fire risk assessment and other breaches of RRFSO, would they be prosecuted?

JohnW


The simple answer is - No. Only following a serious and usually fatal incident will the authorities prosecute, save for the rare exception. Health, safety, welfare and fire regualtions are ubiquitously ignored and it is easy to see why.
Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 20 August 2014 11:33:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

JohnW wrote:
The case Bob refers to I think is

http://www.fia.uk.com/en...fire-regulation-breaches

A shop which had residential flats above it.

The fine, as expected, was imposed on a premises/business where there had been a fire (2012) and lives were at risk, one resident was hospitalised.

Ironic that the business was one of Fire Prevention !!! :o)) - oh I shouldn't laugh.

Getting to Farrall's point. Consider a case of premises where there wasn't a fire but the local fire services happened to visit and found there was no fire risk assessment and other breaches of RRFSO, would they be prosecuted?

JohnW



http://www.firesafetylaw...or-fire-safety-breaches/
Andrew W Walker  
#7 Posted : 20 August 2014 11:35:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

JohnW  
#8 Posted : 20 August 2014 12:09:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Thanks Motorhead, so no fires but prosecuted, maybe a 'history' of inspections.

The number of breaches is going to affect decision to prosecute, and the examples are domestic premises. One had 15 breaches, the other had 10 breaches and was preceded by a previous prosecution, brought by the borough council against the defendants, under the Housing Act 2004.

The website is a good source of case history. I will now look for prosecution cases of warehouse/manufacturing multiple occupation, closer to my line of consultancy work - I had a case where I walked away from a client because he refused to repair a faulty alarm system in his warehouse which also had other tenants a joinery, a car repair garage, several offices etc all in one building.

JohnW  
#9 Posted : 20 August 2014 16:47:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I've started to look through the site's archives. Examples of manufacturing companies who have not had a fire but who have been prosecuted for breaches of RRFSO include

http://www.firesafetylaw...cal-company-fined-again/

http://www.firesafetylaw...-fined-for-rro-breaches/

PIKEMAN  
#10 Posted : 21 August 2014 08:46:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

IMHO prosecution should be a last resort - and may deter others from seeking advice. Note that Fire brigades under the RRFSO can issue Enforcement, Prohibition or Alteration notices - and would probably do this first. However, if there has ben a serious fire..................they might prosecute.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.