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aland76  
#1 Posted : 03 September 2014 14:15:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Any fire bods out there familiar with furniture in designated escape routes? We have a new-build two-floor office block: in the designers wisdom and despite my protests the building is only furnished with one means of escape from the first floor: a concrete staircase which leads down to reception / the front entrance. A fire screen was recently installed to separate the stairway from much of the ground floor to keep the stairs as a safe passage, however we now have staff measuring up the space under the staircase to put seating for visitors. My first thoughts are that I'm unhappy putting furniture under the stairwell with the risk of blocking the one means of escape in a fire, but then the furniture is fire-rated to BS EN 1021-1 / BS EN 1021-2 (optional also with BS 5852:2006 Source 5 certification) Am I overthinking this with the furniture having flammability ratings and unlikely to burn, or is my first reaction in keeping this area sterile the right course of action? This one has me stumped at the minute! Alan
jwk  
#2 Posted : 03 September 2014 15:51:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Hi Alan, I was speaking to a H&S enforcer for a local council some years ago and his colleague was wondering whether to prosecute a local trader. The trader had sold a sofa which had failed a match test; point is the sofa was kite marked as fire retardant etc etc. There was no suggestion of fraud, just that a label means nothing more than the fact that there's a label. Which is a long-winded introduction to me saying that I like to see protected staircases treated as sterile areas, especially if they are the sole means of escape. Don't mind e.g empty filing cabinets or other stuff which absolutely won't burn, but 'might burn' is enough for me to want it elsewhere. Admittedly I am used to NHS fire standards, which are very stringent, but we enforced this in our shops at my old place and we do at my new employer as well, John
jodieclark1510  
#3 Posted : 03 September 2014 16:01:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

I would agree with John, I worked in university accommodation and used to throw fits finding stuff in the stairwells for the same reason- it might burn. On more than one occassion I have found students passed out under the stairs with bedding their mates have brought down to cover them over, sat there having a fag a number of students didn't understand the fact that they were under no circumstance allowed to smoke in the buildings) it might be a one in a million chance of something setting alight in that stairwell but I would rather make it even less of a chance of that
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 03 September 2014 16:43:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

AlanD76 wrote:
A fire screen was recently installed to separate the stairway from much of the ground floor to keep the stairs as a safe passageAlan
Suggesting that the stairwell is not a wholly enclosed protected area?
aland76  
#5 Posted : 03 September 2014 17:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Thanks for the replies all, pretty much backing up my thoughts. Ron - since installing the fire-screen the stairwell has become a protected area and is fully sealed to prevent fire ingress from other areas, unfortunately people fail to see the dangers of sticking flammables under the stairs - examples: stacks of flattened cardboard, deliveries, and only last week 50L of methanol for the lab(!). I'm going with gut instinct on this one and saying no to furniture under there, even if the furniture is fire-rated I know the magazines and other things that will invariably gather in a seating area won't be. Cheers, Alan
hopeful  
#6 Posted : 04 September 2014 07:28:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hopeful

Hello, Previously I have had Fire Officers who would never accept this and would serve notice. An FRA should identify if this is acceptable now the screen has been installed. I would always err on the side of caution particularly if you only have this one escape route. On another point it doesn't seem a very nice place to put visitor seating
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 04 September 2014 08:45:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

A short while ago I mentioned "what if's" and it was poo poo'ed. I now see mention of magazines etc that may gather under the stairs and ask isn't this a "what if" ? In my opinion as an experienced fire risk assessor there is no way anything can be allowed in a single protected escape route. It would be the thin end of the wedge and the area obviously need frequent checks to ensure it is maintained clear at all times. Staff need to be educated about the need for clear escape routes and signs/notices positioned in and around the area.
jodieclark1510  
#8 Posted : 04 September 2014 09:03:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

FireSafety101 wrote:
A short while ago I mentioned "what if's" and it was poo poo'ed. I now see mention of magazines etc that may gather under the stairs and ask isn't this a "what if" ? In my opinion as an experienced fire risk assessor there is no way anything can be allowed in a single protected escape route. It would be the thin end of the wedge and the area obviously need frequent checks to ensure it is maintained clear at all times. Staff need to be educated about the need for clear escape routes and signs/notices positioned in and around the area.
I agree- and if it is forseeable that under the stairs is going to be used as storage space- block it off. Cut out the temptation
aland76  
#9 Posted : 04 September 2014 09:52:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

No argument from me on any of the comments raised, I've already informed those involved that we are not having furniture of any sort under the stairwell. Appreciate the feedback all, just wanted to check I wasn't being unreasonable with this Alan
bob youel  
#10 Posted : 05 September 2014 07:35:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

where was building control in all this?
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:47:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Bob, good question but as you know BC will have approved the means of escape, alongside the Fire safety officer without having the need to police the end result.
hammer1  
#12 Posted : 05 September 2014 16:13:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hammer1

FireSafety101 wrote:
A short while ago I mentioned "what if's" and it was poo poo'ed. I now see mention of magazines etc that may gather under the stairs and ask isn't this a "what if" ? In my opinion as an experienced fire risk assessor there is no way anything can be allowed in a single protected escape route. It would be the thin end of the wedge and the area obviously need frequent checks to ensure it is maintained clear at all times. Staff need to be educated about the need for clear escape routes and signs/notices positioned in and around the area.
When you say anything, what about plant pots etc in regards to residential, there are a couple of choices, zero tolerance or robust management of the single staircase?.
jay  
#13 Posted : 05 September 2014 17:16:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Is this a protected, i.e. Compartmentalised and protected escape route--that will be known from drawings/specifications . Generally, it should be, but there isn't adequate information given in this post. It is not good practice to keep combustible materials in escape routes. Can you get furniture made from non-combustible materials such as metal? It will not provide the comfort of fabric based furniture, but could be a solution if there really is no other option for waiting visitors. In all, seems to be a bungled project as the visitors requirements should have been designed in!
firesafety101  
#14 Posted : 05 September 2014 20:24:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

hammer1 wrote:
FireSafety101 wrote:
A short while ago I mentioned "what if's" and it was poo poo'ed. I now see mention of magazines etc that may gather under the stairs and ask isn't this a "what if" ? In my opinion as an experienced fire risk assessor there is no way anything can be allowed in a single protected escape route. It would be the thin end of the wedge and the area obviously need frequent checks to ensure it is maintained clear at all times. Staff need to be educated about the need for clear escape routes and signs/notices positioned in and around the area.
When you say anything, what about plant pots etc in regards to residential, there are a couple of choices, zero tolerance or robust management of the single staircase?.
Plant pots with live or fake plants, some of them look real but will burn at the touch of a flame.
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