Does anyone complete this task on a regular basis , that they may have a system of works and a risk assessment I could possibly take a look at, thanks

Simply asking for documents to 'help' and not providing any other input or discussion to the forum doesn't sit well with me.

Its really not difficult to research the topic from first principles to derive your own risk assessments and method statement. Afterall only each individual knows the situation they are trying to safely manage.

Asking for clarifications or advice, no problem - simply 'taking' other people's work - no.

Ask someone who does the work to help? I know little about warehousing (what I am currently doing) so I go around with managers and speak to staff working in each area and chat about what they do, what the problems are, what is in place and ask them if they have any ideas of anything else that can be done- this helps to get staff talking more openly about safety and gives me an insight into the situation. So far this has worked out quite nicely giving them a refresher on safety in their area and gives me the knowledge to understand the operation and what they face. Its much more practical to go and see it first hand then looking at sheets of paper or computer screens

Seems a bit harsh folks.
Any post you don't like the best thing is to ignore them & move on
I'd help if I could

I dont anymore, I did in the past until my external hard drive decided to die on me.

Can you add a bit more info to your query so people might be able to throw out pointers for you. Is it layouts your after or more the content?

I dont see why we cant all help each other, Ive no problem in giving templates/info, if it can help, and likewise I wouldnt mind a bot of help at times, if you are not perfect (im not), then we all tend to over look something. We are all in the one 'safety' inductry but different experiences along the way tend to shape our paperwork.

Thank you very much to all the positive people on this site

Latchy, tried to PM you but your inbox is full, probably from well-meaning forum users responding to your requests.

FS101,

Latchy asked if 'anyone completes this task on a regular basis' so if it's a ROUTINE job then I would not insist on a Permit To Work.

I have inspected a hot process in the past (a contractor laying new felt using a blowtorch process) and as you said in your 2nd paragraph, the contractor 'had a risk assessment for the job assessing the works at height and the hot works were included in that assessment'.

His gang had good training in the process, knew how to handle gas canisters, how to use fire extinguishers. It was a single storey building so the gas canisters remained on the ground, so reduced manual handling, and the other materials could go up with just a ladder.

The main concerns on that job were the inadequate edge protection (they had got a scaffold company to erect a secure perimeter barrier out of scaffold tubing but there were no toeboards initially, above the adjacent car park), they hadn't protected a potentially fragile roof dome.

I will always insist on a Hot Work Permit being completed prior to any hot work starting. Unless of course where hot work is an integral part of the industrial process. What I am talking about is a construction site.

How about a site constructiong timber framed buildings?

Thank you to all the people who have given a positive response to my thread, and sorry to all the other people who questioned my means and thanks for the learning curve it wont happen again.

John.

It takes about 5 minutes to complete a Hot Work Permit, and days, weeks, months for a premises to recover from a fire, if indeed it ever does.

Is it worth the risk?

DP, yes, a PTW is never a 5 mins job.

FS101, I'm all for PTW in a factory where they may be welding in area not normal for welding, taking all the precautions and documenting the supervision and closure of the job.

The example I gave above was a roofing contractor who every day is doing blow torch re-felting work. They brought me in on just one occasion to review their risk assessments and advise. I checked their work sheets and checklists, watched them set up, pointed out the WAH issues that needed correcting. Just two lads working together well, I concluded that additional PTW paperwork was not necessary for this job, and said so for similar routine jobs on similar premises that they do every day. I know they just wouldn't do it the next job.

If they get jobs to do in factories then their client may impose a PTW system, and they know that.

Why such a negative attitude to a fellow forum user just asking for help?

We can all do with a shove in the right direction at times and what's the forum here for if not to spread H&S knowledge.

Sidetracking I know, but I too have to query the application of PTW for all hot works.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/co...tytopics/processfire.htm

By reading through the above you will see control measures mentioned.

How you control your fire safety is up to you but personally I don't trust visiting contractors at all.

I have experience of careless use of hot working and find it best to have the Hot Work Permit as a control measure which keeps things in order and ensures the contractor is fully aware of the measures required.

As I say it's up to you.

No every instance of hot working requires a permit (IMHO). If you have a weld fabrication workshop where you are set up to carry out welding day in and day out, you will probably have it arranged so as not to be necessary. However the same workshop has some maintenance work in a dusty long forgotten corner of the building you probably should implement such a system. I think we need to consider why we would want a permit ie fire check a few hours after work completed, or possibly item welded is not safe to use until weld testing which could be 48 hours later etc Only the op knows this.

To the original question hot work at height has the same controls as working at height would normally have + those controls you require normally for hot work added together. In addition I would say optical radiation should be considered for 360 degrees not just a norm weld screen so weld habitat / shelter. I would also have an exclusion zone below the worker ( unless some feature of item welded would not require it). You will not set the scaffold boards alight, unless something has been tipped previously on them. So just consider what may be below that a spark or bit of weld dross make catch light or allow to smolder for a while before catching alight. If this is the case consider a fire watch check an hour and three later.

I have assumed welding. I have not assumed external contractor as they should provide their safe system of work to you ( and you didn't mention them). I have assumed you know about Permit to work but went through it anyway. For all we know you are working on some steelwork ready for a building prior to cladding in the middle of a field and the nearest combustible item is miles away other than the van you arrive in.


Chris

I have a HWP one side of A4. It does take 5 minutes to complete, that is as long as all necessary precautions are in place.

If the permits throws up something still not in place then it has done it's job and the precautions can be provided.

A 5 minute segment of time that proves the workers have set up properly is worth the time taken.

I think you are saying you can trust everyone, if that is the case why are there so many fires on construction sites each year?

I sent the OP a few examples of RAMS regarding W@H/Hot Works so he could add/remove/amend them accordingly to his site specific requirements. As for coming back here for advice, is it little wonder quite a few people use the PM option instead?