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Invictus  
#1 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:01:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

What would you do if you have joined a company and realised they were only playing at safety and feel they brought you in as a tick box.
Animax01  
#2 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:03:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Animax01

Two things; firstly do my best to try and turn things around. I would give this a set period of time as long as I didn't feel that the post would jeopardise my reputation or career.

Secondly, I would be looking for another job whilst I'm doing the first thing. Use it as a valuable experience and move on.

Am I being to harsh?
Andrew W Walker  
#3 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:11:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

I was in the same position.

Things have improved 'slightly'- I must admit that its been a battle and very disheartening. Along with the pay!

As Animax01 has said- look for another job if things don't improve. I am.

Andy
Maroc  
#4 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:21:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Maroc

I would also record everything that you are trying to do and the response that you get to it.

Try and get to the bottom of why this is the attitude, is it an individual, the general culture etc. Try and turn it around.

If allowed bring in external help to assist you with determining the issues.

Lots of avenues to a not too uncommon problem, I am sure most of us experience this to some extent.
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:37:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

What is the level of your position in the company ? You will have an immediate superior who you need to be involving in your day to day attempts at improving the culture.

I was once in a similar position, the first H&S Manager in a construction company and they thought I was there only to do the construction phase plans but I just went off and expanded the role as I saw fit.

I now get requests for H&S work as self employed from the owner of that company because we eventually had a brilliant working relationship and he could see the merits in having proper H&S.

Do not rub anyone up the wrong way, stay cool and talk to people as human beings. Get the workforce on your side by not being aloof and they may assist you efforts to get improvements.

If the pay isn't good then why take on the role in the first place? Surely the level of pay would have said something about the importance placed upon the role.

Good luck.
chris42  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2014 09:39:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Ditto post 3 & post 2.

When you go somewhere that has been allowed to get away with things over a very long period of time, change is slow and painful for everyone.

Current company do not want to listen, or me to put things in writing. I am having a positive effect with middle management, but the upper management have a sort of defiance built in. I don't think this will ever change. Interesting article in the latest SHP.

My hope is that I will leave it in a better place for the next person than I found. I am the 4th H&S person in 5 years, enough said.

Sometimes changing the direction of a company can be like changing direction of a supertanker, it will only happen slowly. However when you are changing the direction by bashing your head against the side, it can be at quite a personal cost.

I think there are lots of people in this position, but do not openly say so in the forum. Consider it a challenge and be pleased about any headway you make. Develop your sense of humor ( if you don't laugh you will have to ...).

All the best with your quest, whatever that is.

Chris
Brown900431  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2014 10:14:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Brown900431

This is such a difficult position to be in; I can relate. And to some degree it depends, do you have a manager or a team that supports you/your role? Is it just one person or the whole culture? etc My concern, for me, is sometimes running away from the challenge before giving it a chance, but obviously not flogging a dead horse.

My advice would be:
Keep a record of significant conversations, emails etc.
Try not to wind people up too much; give them information and advice that allows them to make informed decisions, if they make wrong decisions that's up to them,
Don't compromise yourself or your principles or put yourself at risk (my managers favorite saying is 'principles don't pay the rent' my favorite response (mainly thought but not said) is 'maybe you're in the wrong job'.
Get to know the company, give it time to see some minor improvements,
if you can encourage external accreditation, it adds weight to what you are already saying to them.
Try not to take it personally, see it as an opportunity to learn.
Take up a contact or high intensity sport which helps with stress control!! ;)

But at the end of the day if this is the commitment that they show to you and your role then I wouldn't have too many problems keeping an eye on the jobs pages; protect yourself along the way and definitely agree with laughing.

Good luck.
IanDakin  
#8 Posted : 05 September 2014 10:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Funny, that in threads of this type, we never seem to ask - is it the company, or is it our management or influencing skills.

Maybe we should ask this question - how do we influence and manage more effectively to show the value of what a H&S Manger can do to help a business/organization function better?

Ian

PS I do not imply this is the case with Invictus.
Andrew W Walker  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2014 11:27:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

IanDakin wrote:
Funny, that in threads of this type, we never seem to ask - is it the company, or is it our management or influencing skills.

Maybe we should ask this question - how do we influence and manage more effectively to show the value of what a H&S Manger can do to help a business/organization function better?

Ian

PS I do not imply this is the case with Invictus.


I totally agree with that. I have been known- in the past, I hasten to add- to be quite confrontational, and I knew after that I had lost the battle. Lesson learned.

The only thing I have to do now is master the art of a 'poker face'. Apparently my face gives away quite a lot of my thoughts!

Andy
chris42  
#10 Posted : 05 September 2014 13:47:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

quote=IanDakin]Funny, that in threads of this type, we never seem to ask - is it the company, or is it our management or influencing skills.

Maybe we should ask this question - how do we influence and manage more effectively to show the value of what a H&S Manger can do to help a business/organization function better?

Ian

PS I do not imply this is the case with Invictus.


I would also agree with this. In addition though, I also feel that you can also stand back in an organisation and see that they do not always actually do what they say they do, as they say actions speak louder than words. You do not necessarily need to be the one responsible for changing things or even in H&S to notice this. So the question also becomes is this deliberate or unintentional. Did something seem like a good idea, but in reality impractical or are you just working for ruthless cowboys / cowgirls.
KieranD  
#11 Posted : 05 September 2014 14:34:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Invictus

Learn the relevant techniques for analysing the statements on which you base your judgments

This can enable you to advance arguments for improvements based on relevant analysis of relevant data.

It an also enable you to advance your case on the same basis in applying for an opportunity where an alternative game, more to your liking, is played.
KieranD  
#12 Posted : 11 September 2014 09:33:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Invictus

I've just noticed how five weeks ago you were enquiring about safety culture.

To the extent that the prevailing 'safety culture' is a game of tick box, it's hardly reasonable to anticipate much of a change in culture by now, in the absence of divine power.

While you wait for divine intervention, why not start a programme of safety coaching? It's quite a good time, once you figure out the rules and how scoring actually 'works'.

PM me if you'd like a copy of 'The Coaching Score'
Lawlee45239  
#13 Posted : 11 September 2014 10:10:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

Invictus wrote:
What would you do if you have joined a company and realised they were only playing at safety and feel they brought you in as a tick box.



Feels like my position too. I am trying to do my best, but its is such a slow process.
ashley.willson  
#14 Posted : 12 September 2014 17:01:20(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Oh no he is plugging that again...never mind....

I was in this situation too when I started things. Its been nearly a year with this company and things are better, I am making progress!

Keep going with it guys, you must have some allies or some people who can 'champion' H&S for you. It is hard work and after a year I am still finding it hard but hang in there - there is plenty of support and plenty of people on your side!
Ellis  
#15 Posted : 13 September 2014 08:14:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ellis

It happens, but learn from your experience and decide if you want to roll your sleeves up and get stuck in as best as you can or you actively seek an alternative employer.

hilary  
#16 Posted : 15 September 2014 08:32:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Invictus wrote:
What would you do if you have joined a company and realised they were only playing at safety and feel they brought you in as a tick box.


I understand what you are saying Invictus, but if you step back and look at the bigger picture, they realise they have to have someone and they could have used a consultancy if they were only looking to tick boxes - so why did they appoint a full time person?

Perhaps they are simply wallowing around in the mire and need some direction? I would consider drawing up an annual plan with costings - it costs nothing to complete risk assessments or COSHH assessments and these will then give you an idea of where you need to spend money or where things can be changed with little or no cost. Once you have this idea you can put forward a budget and justification for the spend and potential consequences of not spending the money. A lot of people pay lip service to things they don't understand and perhaps a bit of educating your employers may prove beneficial.

Most employers would not spend money on a full time person if they didn't want some kind of payback, they probably don't yet realise the payback they want.
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