Rank: New forum user 
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I am new to the forum so hopefully my question is valid. I tried to find a answer through searching the forums but could not.
What is deemed a accident at work?
I am responsible for recording the accidents and a couple of times we have had incidents where managers have said that it was not accident at work and we should not record it in the accident book. Recently a employee was off for three days through a back injury. This occured when he bent down to tie his shoelace whilst changing into his steel toe capped shoes at work.(He has a history of a bad back and we already have him on light duties). He or his manager did not want to record it in the accident book as both said it was NOT a accident at work. However it did result in three lost working days.
Is this deemed a accident at work. Would I have to report this under Riddor if it became a over seven day injury? I am not sure so find it hard to argue that this sort of incident needs to be recorded any thoughts from other members would be appreciated.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This is a "short hand" phrase we all tend to us.
A better descriptor would be "an accident that arose out of or in connection with work".
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This link goes to the RIDDOR section of the HSE website dealing with definitions: http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/key-definitions.htmI suggest that they give a pretty good start to any organisation wishing to make their own definition as to what constitutes an accident at work. It makes special mention of ‘feeling a sharp twinge’
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Rank: Super forum user
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I guess there are two issues here, reporting accidents for the purpose of RIDDOR and reporting entries into the accident book.
In my view this entry would need to be entered into the accident book because at a minimum there was a lost time incident and maybe an injury as well. The company may receive a lawyers letter land on their desk within the next 3 years with the person wanting to make a claim, if there is no record of the event taking place how could this be defended.
On the RIDDOR front - this is where the regulation is a grey area. The question is, is putting on PPE supplied and required to conduct a work activity an actual work activity itself?
Personally I wouldn't reported it if it was over 7 days. Note: I'm not saying its not reportable as many people may have other opinions.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Toe wrote:I guess there are two issues here, reporting accidents for the purpose of RIDDOR and reporting entries into the accident book.
In my view this entry would need to be entered into the accident book because at a minimum there was a lost time incident and maybe an injury as well. The company may receive a lawyers letter land on their desk within the next 3 years with the person wanting to make a claim, if there is no record of the event taking place how could this be defended.
On the RIDDOR front - this is where the regulation is a grey area. The question is, is putting on PPE supplied and required to conduct a work activity an actual work activity itself?
Personally I wouldn't reported it if it was over 7 days. Note: I'm not saying its not reportable as many people may have other opinions. Unless he has to perform this task in a very strange manner as a direct result of his work or work place, then I would still say no RIDDOR. It may just as easily happen putting his slippers on at home. As a result it isn't an accident, let alone RIDDOR reportable.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Toe wrote:I guess there are two issues here, reporting accidents for the purpose of RIDDOR and reporting entries into the accident book.
This is the approach I would take too. We record all injuries on the company premises or within company time in the accident book, not only those that may potentially be RIDDORable if they go on long enough.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I wouldn't report this as a RIDDOR but would pop it in the accident book as a record
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi
Have you considered rather than having an accident recording book that you have an Incident recording system that would ask the relevant questions, and based on the answers you could determine whether it is an accident at work, RIDDOR reportable etc.
You could also still have an occurence book for staff to complete for general issues but incidents would be completed on an Incident report form. This document could be both electronic and paper versions and it could have an investigations section that you could use as a lessons learnt, outcomes section and evidence should it ever be required.
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks Everyone this is all helpful. Animax01 your last statement this is exactly the view of some of our managers and our MD.
That said I think it should be recorded in some format in case of action from the employee at a later date. The idea suggested of the Incident book seems like a sensible approach. We need to clearly define what consitutues accident and then decide. Hopefully the RIDDOR site suggested will help with that.
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Rank: Forum user
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As a point of interest, the employer is wrong in refusing to allow an entry in the accident book. The accident book should be freely accessible and any employee is entitled to make an entry. How the entry is dealt with by management is another matter.
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