Rank: Forum user 
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In my local the pool ball keeps leaving the table at a great speed of knots and on occasion has hit a customer. It will not be long before a customer receives a serious injury and a claim made against the landlord. The landlord is a franchisee.
Previous complaints have gone ignored.
Is the landlord in breach of any regs (ie, not providing a safe place of work for employees and visitors etc).
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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I should have added- if not, why not
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Not sure? but mines an Old Speckled Hen. Ill try to avoid the dart board too
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Forum user
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Aleeman,
May I ask why youre so definitive about your answer?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Yes.
The Landlord would almost certainly be in breach of s3 HSWA, but more likely a civil claim could arise courtesy of the OLA if anyone was injured.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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why is nobody considering the liability of the pool player?
it's them that's making the balls leave the table.
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Rank: Forum user
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In breach of Section 3 of HASAWA?
Another one for the Daily Mail
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Rank: Super forum user
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You can see why the old type of pub is going out of fashion.
Darts "sorry people you need to have an enclosed space"
Dominoes "Sorry no loud knocking or chapping in case you send glasses flying"
Skittles "Sorry sticker up refuses to wear armour, and that ball might fly backwards and hit someone"
Shove halfpenny "Sorry do you realise the damage that coin could do"
Never mind back to reality games on the computer.
Friday answer
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I agree with RayRapp
As the Op added in #3 why would it not be covered by section 3(1).
Someone is injured ( tooth knocked out say), table has been hired by the payer so definitely part of owners undertaking. Greedy pub owner cramming too many tables and chairs in, so too close.
Why wouldn't it ?
Is there likely to be a prosecution no, just down to civil claim.
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Rank: Forum user
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Chris42 " cramming too many tables and chairs in, so too close."
This is exactly what has happened. The ball has hit a number of people- including myself. The people concerned are older and do not wish to make a fuss but a younger person has told the landlord that if a ball hit him so hard that he had to have medical treatment or take time off work then he would be looking to take the matter further.
The pool players are of all standards and abilities, including an England international player.
My own personal opinion is that the landlord is in breach of Section 3(1)
We could go on.
I suppose we could argue about the level of noise coming from the speakers.
Has the landlord told his staff that their hearing may be damaged.
Has he offered hearing protection to his staff if the music reaches 80db. Does he enforce the wearing of hearing protection if the music reaches 85db. And so on.
My daughter works in a bar and she has never been told these things. Nor has she been given manual handling training or received any risk assessments at all.
These are all issues that say for instance, a small engineering company, is receiving notices or being prosecuted for and I fail to see what the difference is just because it is another industry.
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cHRISSS wrote: Chris42 " cramming too many tables and chairs in, so too close."
This is exactly what has happened. The ball has hit a number of people- including myself. The people concerned are older and do not wish to make a fuss but a younger person has told the landlord that if a ball hit him so hard that he had to have medical treatment or take time off work then he would be looking to take the matter further.
The pool players are of all standards and abilities, including an England international player.
My own personal opinion is that the landlord is in breach of Section 3(1)
We could go on.
I suppose we could argue about the level of noise coming from the speakers.
Has the landlord told his staff that their hearing may be damaged.
Has he offered hearing protection to his staff if the music reaches 80db. Does he enforce the wearing of hearing protection if the music reaches 85db. And so on.
My daughter works in a bar and she has never been told these things. Nor has she been given manual handling training or received any risk assessments at all.
These are all issues that say for instance, a small engineering company, is receiving notices or being prosecuted for and I fail to see what the difference is just because it is another industry.
Quite right too. And he should also stop selling alcohol in case someone gets drunk and falls over.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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OMG - I don't belieeeeeeeeeeeve it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Could it not be that the landlord has assessed all aforementioned risks and decided that not further action is required? I agree that manual handling should be covered in some way shape or form, depending on what she has to lift, if anything?
As for the pool table, it may be a good idea to move away from the table whilst a game is in progress, or not visit the pub at all?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Well if you think that they are in breach of section 3 Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 you can go and report it to the local EHO who might or might not investigate. You cannot sue for a breach of Health and Safety at Work Act 1974.
There could be a course of action under OLA but more likely would be just to use of good tort of negligence. There is no case law in relation to snooker but there is something about cricket (Bolton v. Stone [1951] AC 850, [1951] 1 All ER 1078) I also think that there are cases about golf. Unfortunately all this is about the effect of these sports on passers-by to the sport’s venus not people who are coming to a pub where there is snooker is taking place and this is a risk. The question is: it an acceptable risk?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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HASAWA does not apply on the 'field of play'. To quote HSE 'Health and safety law does not cover safety matters arising out of the sport or activity itself'. The landlord probably has a duty to ensure that the table itelf is safe SFARP, i.e. it shouldn't have dodgy legs and any electrics built into it should be safe, same goes for accessories under his/her control. But safety during the game is down to the players and not the premises owner. People need to take control of their balls ;-)
John
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Animax01 wrote: or not visit the pub at all?
That was my first thought - I'd do a u -turn if any pub I went in had a pool table.
Dear god, what next - drinking lager?
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walker wrote:Animax01 wrote: or not visit the pub at all?
That was my first thought - I'd do a u -turn if any pub I went in had a pool table.
Dear god, what next - drinking lager?
I hope my satire wasn't to heavily veiled....
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Rank: Super forum user
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Why not get the manager to provide full face mask for those sitting by the pool table maybe they could also provide bubble wrap in case it hits them anywhere else. or he could provide cricket gloves now it wouldn't hurt your little hands.
I think they should ban all pub games, next you'll be telling me that people go to the pub to enjoy themselves when we all know it's just to get out the house. and we complain about the stories in the Mail wonder were they get them from. I don't think they would have to look far.
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I can just see it:
HSE Myth Busters
Pub pool table banned for health and safety reasons.
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No one has suggested banning the game, the question and answers related to proximity.
To confirm I don not think the HSE would be interested even if there was an injury. I think an injury is most likely to be trivial.
But I still think that "technically" it is covered by 3(1). If I am wrong I would love to know why, or what I should read to set me straight.
No one has actually said "why not" as asked, just ridiculed.
My understanding of the sports issue is if it is two people playing sport injure one another ( ie two people playing rugby or football have a bad tackle).
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HSE dont enforce on pubs.
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Chris, I think the statement I've quoted about the application of safety law to sports covers the situation we're talking about. Injuries from balls leaving the table would be arising out of the sport or activity, and H&S law would not apply,
John
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The Licensing Act 2003 sets out licensing objectives which every licensing authority must consider when issuing or reissuing a license:
the prevention of crime and disorder,
public safety,
prevention of public nuisance, and
the protection of children from harm.
It is possible that the licensee is in breach of this Act.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just Ban Pool!...easy..sorted...
Hmm while we are at it lets ban football incase the ball gets kicked into the crowd and injures a child...oooo and cricket, those cricket balls are well dangerous you know...hmm what about tennis...yeah ban that too..especially Wimbledon incase a well served volley hits Cliff Richard...Hmm rugby is next, what else...maybe its just easier to ban everything..then we will all be safe...
I really do despair sometimes at the drivel that hits this forum!
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Rank: Super forum user
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stonecold wrote:Just Ban Pool!...easy..sorted...
Hmm while we are at it lets ban football incase the ball gets kicked into the crowd and injures a child...oooo and cricket, those cricket balls are well dangerous you know...hmm what about tennis...yeah ban that too..especially Wimbledon incase a well served volley hits Cliff Richard...Hmm rugby is next, what else...maybe its just easier to ban everything..then we will all be safe...
I really do despair sometimes at the drivel that hits this forum!
What I despair about this forum is how quickly people are willing to grab the wrong end of the stick or race in with a closed mind or even fail to read the OP properly.
I wonder how they manage to perform competent accident investigations, for instance.
The OP set a scenario and asked what reg (if any) had been breached and why.
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Rank: Super forum user
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'The OP set a scenario and asked what reg (if any) had been breached and why.'
Exactly - and I gave an answer.
The fact that it is very unlikely a prosecution or any enforcement would arise from such an activity should be obvious to all. Don't really know why people feel inclined to add bland and sometimes ill conceived comments to what was a perfectly legitimate question.
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One of the first thing I was taught when studying for my safety qualifications was to "concentrate on the significant, and ignore the trivial"
I think some people on this forum have got that the other way round.
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Rank: Super forum user
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cHRISSS wrote: The pool players are of all standards and abilities, including an England international player.
Then the balls shouldn't be leaving the table. It's not part of the game.
When was the last time the table was serviced? sounds like the cushions might need replacing.
It's normal practice for the table to be leased and for that to include a servicing schedule.
An exception to this could be if the pub is freehold and the landlord has bought a secondhand table outright with realising the importance of the condition of the cushions.
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stonecold wrote:One of the first thing I was taught when studying for my safety qualifications was to "concentrate on the significant, and ignore the trivial"
I think some people on this forum have got that the other way round.
Indeed, I would not argue with those sentiments. However, I would not ridicule someone for asking a trivial question either.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Can the pub not just turn the tables around so that the player is breaking away from people sitting at the bar?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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3 words sum it up.
Oh my God
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Not posted on the forums for a 3 years or so. I thought this was possibly due to having a job I actually enjoy for a change and which kept me busy.
I was wrong of course, it's threads like this which stopped me wasting my time.
See you in a few years if I get bored again.
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