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John _Dobson  
#1 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:03:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John _Dobson

Good afternoon all I have been asked to complete a risk assessment for a number of colleagues who are completeing a 'Tough Mudder' challenge for charity late this month. Tough Mudder is a 10 - 12 mile military style obstacle course - https://toughmudder.co.u...nts/what-is-tough-mudder Where I am at the moment is that it seems to me that the course is a challenge for even those who are in good health and who have completed training for the event I think that the nature of the obstacles is such that there is a good chance that participants will sustain an injury of some sort regardless of their preparation. Looking for help / advice in completing the risk assessment - thanks
simplesafety  
#2 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:14:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simplesafety

Hi John Is the tough mudder on your site? or are your colleagues just doing the challenge in work time? If its not related to your working or in work time, do you/the complany need to risk assess this activity at all? Im sure doing the tough mudder is not part of their job role (??or is it). Is it a work organised / sponsored event? If its not work related then I cant see how a RA is required from you. The organisers of the challenge will be responsible for this. But im sure some other posts who have Sports/Activity experience will explain in more depth Good Luck
MrsBlue  
#3 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:17:33(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I am running a half marathon soon and on the organisers web site they give a very comprehensive training programme. I note that on the web site above you can submit your details to get training tips. But if this was being carried out in the workplace as part of normal work duties then I think a risk assessment, no matter how good or in depth, would be useful seeing as you have said that: "I think that the nature of the obstacles is such that there is a good chance that participants will sustain an injury of some sort regardless of their preparation" Who in their right mind, under normal choices and decisions would want to do something where it appears you will almost definitely get some injury (you don't state how severe these could be). This appears to be an extreme sport and by the very nature of using the term extreme should warn off all level headed people. Or am I missing something here?
John _Dobson  
#4 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:23:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John _Dobson

SimpleSafety wrote:
Hi John Is the tough mudder on your site? or are your colleagues just doing the challenge in work time? If its not related to your working or in work time, do you/the complany need to risk assess this activity at all? Im sure doing the tough mudder is not part of their job role (??or is it). Is it a work organised / sponsored event? If its not work related then I cant see how a RA is required from you. The organisers of the challenge will be responsible for this. But im sure some other posts who have Sports/Activity experience will explain in more depth Good Luck
To clarify, it is ten of our employees who wanted to complete the challenge and since they are raising fund for the company nominated charity (NSPCC) the company have paid their entrance fees for the event. The event does not take place in works time.
paul-ps  
#5 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:29:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
paul-ps

I did one last weekend - no significant injuries to anyone. Its an event you participate in at your own risk. Not work, so why the RA?.
MrsBlue  
#6 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:30:21(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

How can you do a risk assessment on a course you haven't seen or visited? - have you spoken to others who have done it in the past to get their imput? Will it be wet or dry (just look at what happened during the Japanese GP) If not then any RA you produce will be superfluous and meaningless. Rich
grim72  
#7 Posted : 08 October 2014 12:41:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I know plenty of people (of varying fitness and bravado) that have completed Tough Mudder courses without incident. I understand the concern of a company if 10 valuable members of their team were to be injured and out of action for a length of time at the same time but the likelihood of this happening is miniscule. As someone said already it is a popular 'extreme' sporting event and as such there will always be risks - whether it be from electric shocks, barbed wire or wading/crawling through deep mud but I'd consider all as being relatively low-risk in reality. I dont see a need for you to try and do a risk assessment, maybe some encouragement, good luck messages and advice of what to do if they pick up any strains/bruises etc is all that is really needed?
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 08 October 2014 14:35:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

It depends on what this risk assessment is about. As the this activity is not part of work, nobody is being told to do it, I don’t think that H&S risk comes into it. But… there is a business risk in that it is conceivable that upto 10 employees might be out of action if it all goes wrong. What management will want to have is: a. Reassurance that this is as safe is it can be and that the benefits outweigh the risks to the business b. That if it does go wrong that the company has contingencies for dealing with any absences of injured employees c. That the company cannot be held liable in law for anything going wrong or be blamed in the court of public opinion(which might be more difficult) if it is seen to be careless with its employees.
fscott  
#9 Posted : 08 October 2014 14:42:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fscott

Rich777 wrote:
Who in their right mind, under normal choices and decisions would want to do something where it appears you will almost definitely get some injury (you don't state how severe these could be).
Rich777 I'm fully in agreement with you but sadly my husband is one of the crazy people who have done this event and worse and may I add completed without injury. John, By looking at the course layout I'm sure you can work out what most of the hazards are likely to be whilst taking part but my query is what control measures would you implement to lower the risk level bearing in mind that you have no control over the course terrain, obstacles or weather on the day? Other than ensure the participants are physically fit and wear decent shoes/clothing (which they don't mind binning after the event as they will be no use to man nor beast) I don't see what you could do.
John _Dobson  
#10 Posted : 08 October 2014 14:43:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John _Dobson

A Kurdziel wrote:
It depends on what this risk assessment is about. As the this activity is not part of work, nobody is being told to do it, I don’t think that H&S risk comes into it. But… there is a business risk in that it is conceivable that upto 10 employees might be out of action if it all goes wrong. What management will want to have is: a. Reassurance that this is as safe is it can be and that the benefits outweigh the risks to the business b. That if it does go wrong that the company has contingencies for dealing with any absences of injured employees c. That the company cannot be held liable in law for anything going wrong or be blamed in the court of public opinion(which might be more difficult) if it is seen to be careless with its employees.
Thanks I think that it is point C that is the interesting one. With the company paying the entrance fees, does that mean that the company effectively encourages participation which could mean some liability in the event of an EL claim
Steve Granger  
#11 Posted : 08 October 2014 14:50:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

John - I think this is very sensible approach, covering the work colleague aspect and company endorsement. There is also a BC matter should they all come from one dept. It does not matter whether it is work or it isn't - the team would benefit from 'Coach Safety'. You might even improve their odds at surviving. If you want some help pm me. Happy to guide or share the work, no charge. Lets show doubters that safety plays as well as safety pays.
A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 08 October 2014 16:30:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There might be a civil claim. Anyone can have a go and make a claim. This does not mean that it would succeed in court but it might be tempting to pay up just to get the thing sorted and the hassle of dealing with a claim or even claims also costs money. Furthermore if a load of staff were injured and it was a quiet news day the publicity would not necessarily be good-“Local firm loses key staff in mud wrestling challenge” or some other similar guff in the local press. It would make the company look incompetent even reckless. The other hand if it goes tickety-boo then the headline could be “Local firm shows a lot of heart in mud wrestling challenge”. Someone has to make the decision and that has to be based on some sort of risk assessment.
Ian Harper  
#13 Posted : 08 October 2014 18:13:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ian Harper

There is only one headline that would appear in the newspaper and that's " 'elf and Safety stops charity event." Then I guess I might end up on Radio 5 or something. It is usually the organisers who control the risk, what experience do you have in managing these sort of events? A bit of due diligence to make sure they have risk assessed it and they are a reputable outfit and go ahead, make some children's lives better. If you want an endorsement from me, send me details and I will sponsor them as well.
toe  
#14 Posted : 08 October 2014 20:32:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Volenti non fit injuria' comes to mind here. If you do, do a risk assessment what are your outcomes/controls? Stop your staff doing it! You certainly cant change the assault course. Things to consider; Check the PL insurance of the company to ensure they are covered; If a member of your staff gets injured during the event will you pay then sick pay? Just checked out the website, wow, sign me up for some of that...
ashley.willson  
#15 Posted : 09 October 2014 07:13:06(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

I have done this before - its great and I would thoroughly recommend it! I cant see why you would need to risk assess it as this would have already been done by the guys running it - but if your employer insists why not ask for copies of the risk assessments and write an overarching one referencing those done by the organisers. This could then include things like: "If employee doesn't feel that they are in good enough health or ability to complete an obstacle, they are to walk round it". Hope that helps.
leadbelly  
#16 Posted : 09 October 2014 08:15:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

I'm with Ian Harper on this. Do the due diligence bit and go for it! LB
A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 09 October 2014 09:20:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think what the original poster is asking about is not the narrow H&S risk assesment as required under H&S law but the wider concept of business risk. Yes the duty to deal with the H&S risk is down to the event organisers but the wider risk to the business (continuity issues and reputational issues-insurance will not cover those) is down to the employer. Not a legal requirement but something to think about. What would you do if several key personal were all out of action at once. Could your business cope? More about this at http://www.shponline.co.uk/wider-view/
Ian Harper  
#18 Posted : 11 October 2014 08:17:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ian Harper

I presume you will feedback when they have completed it?
John _Dobson  
#19 Posted : 22 October 2014 09:49:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John _Dobson

Ian Harper wrote:
I presume you will feedback when they have completed it?
Will do Ian
John _Dobson  
#20 Posted : 29 October 2014 10:34:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John _Dobson

Ian Harper wrote:
I presume you will feedback when they have completed it?
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I completed a Risk assessment with the assistance of Steve Granger (this forum) The day went absolutely brilliantly. The Tough Mudder event organisers have the day and Health and Safety ‘down to a t’ Apart from a few bruises and scrapes, the team did very well. They worked as a team throughout the whole event and did not leave any members behind. They completed at the 4 hour mark Thanks again for help
firesafety101  
#21 Posted : 29 October 2014 11:51:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I didn't contribute but thanks for the feedback John, and thanks to all who did, that's why we're here isn't it?
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