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calcutter  
#1 Posted : 14 October 2014 11:23:29(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
calcutter

Hi I hope someone could give me some advice here? Occasionally we employ agency workers for horticulture tasks i.e. grounds maintenance which include mowing, strimming, hedge cutting etc. Obviously they are exposed to numerous risks and we provide very good training, ppe, supervision etc. With our own full time work force with have a health surveillance program in place to look for symptoms of HAVS and other conditions which may be caused or exacerbated by the use of tools emitting vibration. Therefore, the question that I have is are we legally required to do the same for temporary/agency workers. Morally, I believe we should but I need to understand the H&S requirements.
Canopener  
#2 Posted : 14 October 2014 11:59:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

You’re likely to get some differing opinions here, with some stating that the agency is the employer (on the basis that they do the PAYE/Ni and that therefore the duty rests with them.

So again. That the agency (might) do the PAYE/NI doesn’t necessarily make them the employer for the purposes of health and safety. In some respects it might in others it won’t. Generally the key to this is to agree who does what with the agency prior to the workers starting work with you. Many of the H&S responsibilities will ‘naturally’ fall to the user employer (you) as they will in practical terms be best placed to exercise control. The decision should be relatively easy to determine based on what is practical and realistic for whom to do what.

In this case I would say that this is one of those instances where you should agree who should do this in the contract, but if this hasn’t been done then I would say that it wouldn’t be unreasonable for the user employer to bear the responsibility and associated costs.

Others will no doubt disagree. I would like to think that the AWR will eventually evolve to cover these sort of situations, but in the meantime the key really is to agree terms with the agency first; then there should be little to argue about thereafter.

You should also be aware that it is likely that an agency worker who has been ‘employed’ by you for a ‘significant’ period might well be regarded as your employee.

jay  
#3 Posted : 14 October 2014 14:02:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Refer to the Agency/temporary workers webage on the HSE website:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/to...ox/workers/temporary.htm
calcutter  
#4 Posted : 14 October 2014 17:44:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
calcutter

Canopener: Really grateful for your reply and I agree with your view entirely. Thanks again.
toe  
#5 Posted : 14 October 2014 23:40:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

If its just HAVS that is being tested for Occ Health and nothing else - I would consider this a risk management question, for example what is the likelihood that an agency worker would contract HAVS from your work activity and what is the likelihood that they may try to sue you.

If your full time workers are not showing any signs of HAVS through surveillance and you have good management controls of your equipment and controlled exposure times, then you may decide not to test the agency workers.

On another note, its possible that your agency workers would be working with another employer that may not have good controls - if the test from the agency worker uncovers a concern for example vibration white finger what action would you take?
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 15 October 2014 07:27:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

If you assess that they are likely to reach the EAV (which if they're doing the same work as your employees would already appear to be the case) then surveillance is required. I really wouldn't suggest using a 'risk management' process based on whether you permanent employees display symptoms or not to determine whether to provide health surveillance for your agency workers or not. There is a glaring and obvious flaw in that approach. If the EAV is likely to be met then someone (and this leads back to the original question) must arrange and pay. My money says that in the absence of any contractual agreement, it sits with the user employer.
bob youel  
#7 Posted : 15 October 2014 07:49:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

great question and great answers

I have been asking this question of the HSE for many years and whilst they have not answered the question to my liking they have said that the employer is responsible e.g. agency and 'technically' the client can be held liable and should treat such workers where they control them as their own - this implies that HAVS and all other areas should be managed properly by the host employer

That said the costs of occupational health cover for such staff hinders progress as far as business is concerned as the main reason for laying off employees and then using agencies is low cost and where agencies have tried to do the right thing they have lost work as doing the right thing raises costs - only yesterday one agency I know lost a long term contract because of this very point!!!!

as already stated by Canopener A: "If your full time workers are not showing any signs of HAVS through surveillance and you have GOOD management controls of your equipment and controlled exposure times, then you may decide not to test the agency workers". B: "On another note, its possible that your agency workers would be working with another employer that may not have good controls - if the test from the agency worker uncovers a concern for example vibration white finger what action would you take?"

This has been a big problem in the radiation field where staff move around and has been solved by having a central data base so all doses are recorded and new employers take over as the employee works for them. That said this will not happen in general industry

There are two routes to go down as far as I am concerned
A: Treat staff as employees - This is the proper way in my view but it can be costly and possibly expose the company in the future as if U are the only company undertaking exposure control as U should do the worker will remember this as U will stand out from the crowd in their work history

It would be almost impossible for an agency to manage such things on a daily basis so the controller would have to do that

B: Take a chance as all others appear to be doing as it will be near impossible for a worker to get recompense at a future date even if they knew that they have a problem and that they were exposed and the HSE under its current remit is unlikely to act

B is a poor way of working but unfortunately that is a way of business in the UK at this time


I would address this point with your MD and the company finance officer giving them all the facts etc. and see how it goes thereafter you have done all that U can,

NB:I have also addressed the point of health surveillance re volunteers with the HSE where volunteers are being used where employees have been laid off


Best of luck

johnmurray  
#8 Posted : 15 October 2014 13:17:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

*How long should I keep records?
40 years as a general rule or longer if required by specific regulations as some health effects do not emerge for a long period after exposure
*Who can see the health records?
In addition to the employer they can be seen by the employee, HSE and an employee’s representative with consent
*What if my company ceases trading?
You should pass the records to the employee or to the HSE
**I run an employment agency. What are my health surveillance responsibilities?
As an agency supplier you are responsible for health surveillance, Before placing with a business you need to check whether they will be doing work that requires health surveillance.
**What do I need to do if I use temporary or agency workers?
The business user is not legally required to perform health surveillance however you can after discussion with the agency perform this on their behalf

http://www.iosh.co.uk/~/...ance%20Presentation.ashx
toe  
#9 Posted : 15 October 2014 14:41:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Canopener is correct in that the information I have said in my post may be misleading. 'There is a glaring and obvious flaw in that approach' please accept my apologies - upon reflection I should have made my post clear.

I guess what I was trying to say is that there are many approaches to manage the risks associated with HAVS, health surveillance is not exactly a risk base approach, it generally serves as a reactive approach and can give an indication if your existing control measures are working or not. What I was trying to say is that if you have lots of good controls in place and through health surveillance it appears that your controls are working, this information could be used in your decision making. If all is good with your employed staff because HAVS is appropriately managed why would it not also be the same with agency staff.

However, John's recent post and the presentation from the IOSH website makes interesting reading.
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