Rank: Forum user
|
Good afternoon,
I'm in the process of moving into a new office, there will be 180 people moving so not a small office.
The question I have is when working out the space requirements for each person, is this calculated by 11 cubic metres per workspace or is this the total floor space of the room divided by the number of people?
I thought it was the individual workspace not the total size of the room but this has been challenged.
I've had a read through the ACOP but it's not clear.
My understanding of it was that to get the 11 cubic metres I would need to have the following for each workspace:
Width of desk: 1.6m
Height of ceiling: 2.56m
Distance required to get the 11 cubic meters from lenth of desk and space behind desk 2.7m
This would ensure that all persons within the room get the same amount of space as a minimum but if it's the other way we have some desks that are close to the wall and don't have much space.
Can you help with this?
We also have a problem where we have designers who have two monitors and use A3 files for reference that currently use a table and a half but in the new setup we have three desks butted up to each other so no room for a half desk meaning that there is not enough working space for both the pc equipment and working documents.
Thanks
Barney#1
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The recommendation is 11M3 per person. Ignore any height over 2M so basically 5.5M2 per person. So total square metres floor space divided by 5.5 equals the MAXIMUM number in the room. Start subtracting filing cabinets, lockers and 0.5M3 per person for desk, chair, drawers, PC/work station you are now down at closer to 5M2 per person. Single / dual monitors is a negligible issue. For the numbers mentioned you will need to have a clear access / egress route the length of the room suitable for wheel chair access removing from the available floor plan before calculating the number of people that will fit
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The recommendation is 11M3 per person. Ignore any height over 2M so basically 5.5M2 per person. So total square metres floor space divided by 5.5 equals the MAXIMUM number in the room. Start subtracting filing cabinets, lockers and 0.5M3 per person for desk, chair, drawers, PC/work station you are now down at closer to 5M2 per person. Single / dual monitors is a negligible issue. For the numbers mentioned you will need to have a clear access / egress route the length of the room suitable for wheel chair access removing from the available floor plan before calculating the number of people that will fit
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Hi Barney, I believe it is a minimum of 11m3 of unoccupied space per person and a height of up to 3m can be used in the calculations. So basically you'd need a room volume of at least 1980m3 just to satisfy the volume per person. Obviously this would need to be higher when taking up volume with work equipment.
Please let me know if this is incorrect as I am new to this and I am interested in improving my knowledge in H&S.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
It's per person. I don't think the ACoP goes further in making its definition specific to an individual having to have that space to themselves. In fact, it gives exceptions to the 'rule'.
But its not such a hard and fast rule.
The legal requirement is to have sufficient space for the purposes of h&s.
With a ceiling height of 2.56m, I work out that your per person minimum actually needs to be 4.3m2...so 773.4m2 in total. The size of the desk etc. doesn't come into this calculation. (to confirm, its 3m height maximum but that's not relevant in the OP's case)
BUT
You can't just use this calculation in isolation because, as pointed out, you still need sufficient space to work and have proper access, egress, ability to move your chair back out from your desk, people squeezing past you etc. So many other variables need to come into play.
So it can be used as a starting point to calculate the minimum floorspace but then all your other concerns can reasonably come into play - plan it out on a floor plan and see if that number of people can feasibly be put into that space and still meet all other necessary legal and work requirements.
Btw, the ACoP doesn't say it has to be 11m3 _unoccupied_ space. How much you allow to be unoccupied is your judgement call based on your assessment....although clearly filling everyone's 11m3 with fire extinguishers, potted plants, printers and filing cabinets will make work rather impractical!
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Sorry Barney#1 if I have given you incorret information.
I agree with Xavier123, in that the ACoP does not say that it has to be 11m3_unoccupied_space. Like I said, I am new to H&S and I have misinterpreted the ACoP were it talks about the floor space indicated in its calculations for providing 11m3, as not always giving sufficient unoccupied space, as required by the regulations?
I also mentioned upto 3m high can be used in the calculations because you had put "I would need to have the following" rather than "I have". Based on this, I assumed that you did not actually know your office dimensions, so I personally felt is was relevant.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
An excellent guide to what many might consider a more realistic basis for making a judgement as to what is ‘reasonable’ workspace (rather than trying to scrape the paint off the legal minimum ‘sufficient’) can be found online: - the OffPPAT / HCA Employment Densities Guide 2010. This sets out and explains the bases for measurement (Gross External Areas, Gross Internal Areas and Net Internal Areas) and advises which are best used for which type of business (and why). The NIA figures recommended range from 12m2 for general offices and 8m2 for call centres…. (And down to 7m2 per workstation in serviced offices but recognising need for additional “servicing” area). All of which are well above the minimum prescribed as a minimum for former factory premises by the schedule 1 invoked by Reg 10(2) workplace regs… (I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - the minimum 11m3 ‘limit’ in the schedule does NOT apply to offices, new builds, etc…. )
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Thanks for that link Steve, a very useful document.
p48
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I've never seen that document so it useful to look at. It seems to be about predicting employment densities based on property development in a given area ...those numbers are not derived from an assessment of what would be 'healthy'. They appear to be taken as a rule for what is generally found in practice from a variety of data sources. So very useful for benchmarking (and noting that the 'limit' is not always adhered to) ... but I wouldn't go so far as saying that the NIA 'recommend' these numbers as a target or similar. Maybe I'm being picky - but it is coming from a different place.
I follow (and don't necessarily disagree with) your point about a 'limit' but I'm also genuinely intrigued and playing a small element of devil's advocate in asking why the ACoP doesn't conclusively apply to offices, new builds etc. It gives a list of exceptions but those aren't amongst them.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Doh, meant to say the NIA figures 'recommend'.
<edit>
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I also much prefer their working out using m2 rather than m3 which is, in more modern buildings, largely unnecessary.
Um, have I just stumbled onto your point about new builds?!
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Xavier: OK – I’m going to get really pedantic and hair-splitting now, and I know this will be off-putting for many, but please bear with me as this is important. DESPITE what the HSE might have written into the Approved Code of Practice, the Workplace Regulations do NOT “require” 11m3 per person as a ‘minimum’. Reg 10 (1) requires that “Every room where persons work shall have sufficient floor area, height and unoccupied space for purposes of health, safety and welfare.” – and that is the basic standard applicable to all workplaces. Reg 10 (2) goes on to specify that “It shall be sufficient compliance with this regulation in a workplace which is NOT (my caps) a new workplace, a modification, an extension or a conversion AND (my caps) which, immediately before this regulation came into force in respect of it, was subject to the provisions of the Factories Act 1961, if the workplace does not contravene the provisions of Part I of Schedule 1. Part 1 Schedule 1 (which is where the 11m3 figure is laid down) is therefore ONLY to be invoked if the workplace was subject to the Factories Act prior to 1992… In any other workplace (a workplace built since 1992, a modification, an extension or a conversion, OR AN OFFICE OR SHOP etc) the schedule is not invoked. The 11m3 ‘minimum’ is a red herring and the legal obligation is reduced to reg 10 para 1 only. i.e. area, height and unoccupied space must be “sufficient”. What is ‘sufficient’ may need to be determined by a court – but HSE – and the prosecution – cannot rely on the schedule to the regs if the schedule to the regs is not invoked. And the ACoP is simply wrong on this point. Fundamentally for most workplaces there is simply no LEGAL ‘numerical’ standard for how much space is considered ‘sufficient’.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Not in the least bit off-putting!
I'd never clocked that before or given it any thought so its a really rather valid point. Thanks for laying it out. I've never treated 11m3 as an absolute (acop being quasi-legal only) but equally not realised there was an argument for showing that it was simply inapplicable at all. Some lessons in there about going back to read the (ALL of the) regulations and not just relying on the ACoP in isolation!
Cheers matey.
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Thanks for that Steve, I found your posts very informative.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
It can get quite complicated when you also have to consider space between desks and major route space for fire.
I usually take volume of room (but not over 3m high) take off one third for usual furniture and a bit for anything else i.e. would take a bit more off is more than one desk per person was required for their office furniture then either divide by 11 or the number of people I want to put in. As its the ACOP which says 11 m3 I try to get as close to that as possible or have a good reason for not being close to - that usually satisfies the reg.
Times its been less than 11m3 is when office isn't occupied by everyone all day
Lilian
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Ireland's HSA guidance identifies 4.65m2 per person to include desk and chair but not items such as filing cabinets. Usual caveats apply e.g. shape of room provision of IT/elec points etc.
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.