Rank: New forum user 
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Some help needed folks.
I have been made aware that an operative (fencer) is off sick for several weeks with back pain. In his RTW interview he claims the back pain was work related. When questioned he claims of x2 separate separate incidents which were a week apart. Neither of these had been reported previously by either the IP or any of the other operatives he claims were present (one of which it should be noted is a supervisor). Upon investigation the details of these alleged incidents are vague and contradictory.
Some advise please in terms of RIDDOR reportable?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Muscularskeletal injuries caused at work including back pain, should be reported under Riddor if it results in over 7 day absence or inability to undertake normal job role.
As to whether you believe the gentleman and choose to report is up to you.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I disagree. MSD's are largely ruled out under RIDDOR unless classified as a reportable disease.
Given the vague description of incidents, I'll presume there has been no actual accident - just likely alleged correlation between a work activity and an occurrence of back pain. On that basis there is therefore no application of RIDDOR.
From the HSE website:
There must be an identifiable external event that causes the injury, eg a falling object striking someone. Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as ‘accidents’ under RIDDOR.
If, however, there is indeed an 'accident' (separate, identifiable, unintended incident, which causes physical injury) then there may well be some merit to reporting.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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But it also states :- http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/faq-general.htmAre MSDs reportable under RIDDOR Answer: MSDs are only reportable if they lead to a major injury or result in absence lasting more than 3 working days and they should be reported as such in the normal way. So other that it is now 7 days, they seem to feel it is a "Major injury" and so would be reportable. The rest of the text discusses the issues of MSD building up and considering job rotation etc, not a specific incident Which seems to be in conflict with the HSE advice noted above. Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks all I enjoy a good RIDDOR debate.
Considering then that the first injury was a 'twinge' and the second resulted in time off a week later (over 7 days absence) are we saying that not report based upon the HSE advice, 'Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as ‘accidents’ under RIDDOR'...?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Decided to do further checking during lunch and there seems to be info going both ways. However I have decided to change my view to match Xavier123. As when in doubt go to the legislation itself which in this case states there has to be an accident.
(2) Where any person at work is incapacitated for routine work for more than seven consecutive
days (excluding the day of the accident) because of an injury resulting from an accident arising out
of or in connection with that work,
Having said that the OP noted the employee referenced two separate incidents not a build up over time, so if plausible and believed then it would be reportable.
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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Good spot on the conflicting advice ... clearly a page they haven't updated given the 3 day reference. They're normally quite hot on keeping content up to date at the HSE as its the only way they have left of providing advice!
Yeah, it comes down to that twinge wasn't an accident, 'merely' an experience of pain arising from normal work activities. The Regs don't really define accident so we've only got dictionary definitions and the HSE website guidance (replicated in INDG453) to go by. RIDDOR offences rarely get argued out in Court do I doubt there is any relevant case law - unless someone can tell me otherwise?
You still get all the fun of considering whether it was work-related...or even a real event....but from your follow up description I'd go with not reportable with regards RIDDOR.
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Rank: Forum user
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This is quite uncanny as I have had a VERY similar experience over the last month or so, albeit I took the view to report our 'accident' as a reportable, over 7-day injury. One of our operatives verbally informed the site general foreman that he had sustained a back injury whilst he was bending copper pipe using a bending machine at work.
This occurred on the Friday, however it was not reported in the accident book at the time as he, in his words, 'felt it wasn't overly painful and never thought any more about it'. Regrettably, the site general foreman also took the decision not to record it. The operative then came back into work on the Monday and said he had been troubled with back pain all weekend and now wanted it reported in the book. On the Monday evening he visited his GP who proceeded to sign him off for two weeks.
The operative returned to work last Monday and yesterday I had yet another accident book entry in to state that he has again hurt his back whilst lifting a wash hand basin into position and again had to leave the site due to the pain. He has not shown up to work today.
Similar to the OP's comments, I have my doubts about the validity of these claims as we have had previous similar dubious claims made by this same operative which could not proven or disproven either way, however I took the decision to report in this instance as I believed it to be the best way to keep both myself and my employer in the right.
As an aside, regarding the accident reporting issue, I have been at pains (no pun intended!) recently to stress to all our site managers and general foreman that ALL accidents and incidents on site need to be recorded at the time they occur. The site team were made firmly aware that this should have been recorded on the day it is alleged to have occurred.
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Rank: New forum user
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All,
Many thanks for all your comments. The IP has since advised in a statement that he has been suffering from the occassional twinge from time to time in his back and shoulder for a number of years, including prior employers. Therefore, I have taken the view not to report. The nuts and bolts of it are that we have allowed IP's to undertake restricted duties within a nice comfortable office and this has seen an increased volume of 'incidents'. I am currently reviewing this 'doctors waiting room' approach.
Thanks again.
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