Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
BJC  
#1 Posted : 06 November 2014 09:18:55(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

The HSE imply these are now mandatory even though they can be a hindrance at ladder access points.
paulw71  
#2 Posted : 06 November 2014 09:35:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

Could you direct me to the source please ? Cheers
boblewis  
#3 Posted : 06 November 2014 09:42:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

But why would you want your ladder access next to the loading point???? This only creates an additional hazard of people using ladders at the same time as loading!! Also why on earth are you still using ladders to access scaffolds - stairways are the way to go. Bob
BJC  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2014 13:15:49(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Very few scaffolds have the luxury of internal stairs however were time & money of no object great. Loading bays are always guarded by gates except in 3 rd world countries but ladder access points requiring gates were sited as FFI by the HSE recently.
boblewis  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2014 14:07:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Of course it can also be read as the use of gates at the ladder access openings. This only emphasises the real problems for what can be regarded as a safe ladder access. I really have problems with the cost of stairway argument when one can look at the vastly improved safety and productivity through the use of stairs. Also they are capable of providing a much higher person flow than a ladder can. Planning can almost always phase out the need for ladders, providing there is the will to do it. Ladders will always increase the need for hoisting even for relatively small items.
JYoung  
#6 Posted : 13 November 2014 08:39:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JYoung

Bob - I don't think that is what is meant, think the it is meaning at the top of a ladder access in order to prevent/protect anyone from falling through the access point whilst on the scaffold. They should not be a hinderance is designed/built correctly, they should open inwards from the ladder access onto the scaffold and be sprung loaded so that they return to the original position. Ideally it should only be a case of one person up the ladder at a time and thus no real issue, also advise putting guard rails around the top of the ladder access as additional protection for when stepping onto the ladder (just a view from previous experience). Agree with Bob that if the option is there and space then dedicated stairways should be the way forward as they reduce the risk and provide a better solution. Cost should not be any issue over someones / peoples safety. Look at haki towers - http://www.haki.com/en/products/stairs/
BJC  
#7 Posted : 13 November 2014 10:28:13(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

How many people have fallen through access points I suspect very few. Is there NASC guidance on this or perhaps an ACOP making the HSE actions enforceable.
kenty  
#8 Posted : 13 November 2014 17:07:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kenty

NASC introduced some guidance on this back in 2006 (SG25-06) stating the preferred method of access was proprietary scaffold staircases, then working down a hierarchy. Ladder access gates & trap doors were 3rd or 4th on the list of preferred access methods.
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 13 November 2014 18:56:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Well, well even the NASC agree with me. Gates are not needed for a stairway. What does the hierarchy of risk control say - at the top _ ELIMINATE. That is just what I am saying, you need to show clearly that stairs are not an option.
Dean Elliot  
#10 Posted : 17 November 2014 14:18:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dean Elliot

BJC wrote:
The HSE imply these are now mandatory even though they can be a hindrance at ladder access points.
Your post suggests a misinterpretation of HSE's powers, regulations and FFI. You assume that there has to be a specific mention of a rule in regulation for HSE to suggest a material breach. Every material breach can be based upon site specific issues which may or may not indicate that HSE thinks that they are "mandatory". In any event, the regulations state that you should prevent falls. Gates clearly prevent falls for those who are using the scaffolding and therefore HSE is correct in assuming a material breach. I can't see how a door is a hindrance. A hindrance does not necessarily equate to a risk. Do you have any evidence that they cause more accidents? A hindrance to who? Someone carrying something up and down a ladder? As suggested above, if you are concerned about the hindance then provide a stairwell. It is reasonably practicable - which is enough for a material breach - to provide a gate as a minimum but leaving an opening is not acceptable. This is not something that HSE has dreamed up for FFI purposes but has been the view of HSE for many years. If the company you refer to did not have a notice for the lack of a gate then they were lucky to get away with a letter. Both may incur a charge but letters are not on the public database.
FHS  
#11 Posted : 17 November 2014 15:28:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
FHS

Dean, Have a search of the OPs previous posts and you may get a better insight as to where they are coming from.
Alex Whittle  
#12 Posted : 17 November 2014 20:36:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Whittle

Hi BJC, Have a look at the NASC TG20:13 ACOP. This will give you the full chapter and verse for a compliant scaffold and its access arrangements appropriate to the type of build. Best regards Alex
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.