I have come across an issue with employees training and wondered what others thoughts were. We have employees who in the past have completed apprenticeship's 20 or 30 years ago, where their training would cover using certain types of equipment and they do seem to be able to use it now, but I have no evidence of this training. I'm not sure I explaining the question well so I use myself as an example. I did A mechanical Engineering apprenticeship Day release to college etc, where I was taught to use Oxy/ Acetylene welding equipment. However that was almost 30 years ago for me and I have nothing in particular to show I can use the equipment (but I can). Do you accept if someone has done an apprenticeship for something that they can do whatever or do you insist on some sort of formal training cert or do you test them in some way. What are others views on this subject. Thanks Chris

This is always a difficult problem to deal with. "You trying to tell your granny to suck eggs" is the oft used term in these situations. However, being the "Company Pessimist" I have often noted that in the event of any accident or injury occurring, the injured party will always suffer from amnesia, and when questioned his replies will usually be: I was never shown-- I have never used -- I didn't know how -- The best way is not to "re-train" the people, but to set simple tests for them to "CONFIRM THEIR COMPETENCE". All part of good TNA as well Rodger Ker

Thanks all so far , yes checking their past may be tricky some have been with the company so long I'm not sure they even had paper back then. Yes the competence test was going through my mind as a way forward. I have also encountered those amnesiacs, who can also be management. Quote "Only other thing I would mention is Management Regs 1999, Regulation 13(3) which says training should be repeated periodically etc." I agree with re training and sometimes updating skills as things change. But then on the other hand the last time I did a driving test was when I was 18 - when I was an apprentice:0). People do forget, but these guys have been doing the things they do all their life and regularly enough. Teaching granny to suck eggs, not heard that for a while and would like not to have something unpleasant inserted where I would prefer they didn't by said granny's. Chris

I do agree with the "confirm competency" route. But I would reference the "grandfather rites" received by the original CMIOSH people, has their competence been reassessed? I won't accept the cpd argument, given that you can give yourself points for reading the SHP? There are some very good CMIOSH folks out there, and there are some very bad ones? I'm a "timeserved" machinist, and other than show my apprentice papers, have never been asked to "prove competence" on a lathe? Its a difficult one, but reasonable steps seems to be the way to go?

I don't disagree with any of the above comments and can see the need to maybe update knowledge. However Apprenticeships are not a thing of the past and although I have doubts about some modern apprenticeships, and just being a means to pay people less, there are still the time served skilled ones. When it takes 4 years to do an apprenticeship, you cannot expect people to go through it all again a few years later. It does not matter if you are a time served carpenter, vehicle mechanic, tool room machinist etc, and all the machinery these involve. Again looking at my apprenticeship, we did no work for the factory there was a dedicated apprentice school. So as well as weld, I can also use a lathe, miller, surface grinder, cylindrical grinder, shaping machine, auto lathes, band saws, bench grinder (including changing the wheel) and the list goes on and on. You couldn't realistically do refresher training for everything learned. As I can not be unique to having people still working on the basis that they are time served in whatever field, is there such a bank of skill checking tests that I /we can draw on. If I create such tests in house, using my 30 year old knowledge who is to say that is ok. But full training on the above lists of equipment would also be impractical. As I noted above you can take a car ( a reasonably dangerous piece of machinery) test at 18 and drive to the age of 70, unless caught doing to many things wrong. Yet manual handling training people seem to want you to refresh every few years. So what do others do ? Thanks all for taking time to debate the issue. Chris

Listen to this guy ^ It's a sad state of affairs but these days training is more about covering backsides than anything else. Get it all in writing (certs, questionnaires etc). You might get some grumbles and you'll probably feel daft but believe me, you'll feel a hell of a lot dafter if you're caught with your trousers down when an accident happens.

In my organisation we have a library of safety operating procedures which we use for training purposes. They are documented and unambiguous and the insurance company loves them. Supervisors are trained in every procedure, and workers are only trained in the procedures that they use. Forklift drivers do not get trained to use hydraulic presses and welders do not get trained to use radial arm drills. Seems to work well for us.

Grandfather rights to using oxy/acetylene, yes I have that badge - quickly learnt that loud popping noises and lots of black smoke isn't good, and cranking up the oxygen doesn't help make the welding any better. I remember spending 50 minutes working out how to change the acetylene bottle to find that the thread was a left handed Dohhhhh..... and your not suppose to put grease on the oxygen threads which I did all the time. Talking about threads - In the event of an investigation from the HSE, the first question they normally ask is show us the training records for the people involved. It doesn't look good if you don't have any or you can't evidence competence.