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Clive765  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2014 20:35:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Clive765

Hi all,
Sorry if this has been posted before.
Can anybody help me out with a risk assessment for someone with a heart murmur.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
Clive
walker  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2014 08:06:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Why would you want to?
stonecold  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2014 08:44:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Use Occupational Health
Lawlee45239  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:03:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Lawlee45239

Clive765 wrote:
Hi all,
Sorry if this has been posted before.
Can anybody help me out with a risk assessment for someone with a heart murmur.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
Clive



I cannot aid with the health side of it, but as suggested perhaps get OH to do their bit, and you can just mention in your RA that the operative has a heart murmur. As we dont know how bad it is, if there is medication to regulate.
jwk  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:36:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

One essential thing here is that the person with the condition is fully involved in this assessment. They may have some very good insights into how it might affect them; you need to involve them whatever OH might say,

John
Clive765  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2014 13:33:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Clive765

Hi,

Thanks for all of your replies.

The reason I need to assess the person is because they will be carrying out railway engineering training.

We do not have an OH department, it's all down to me.

The person in question is visiting their GP on Monday so as jwk advises, I will be speaking with them to gather more information.

Thanks again.
pete48  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2014 16:08:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Keep in mind that a heart murmur is not necessarily a problem. You need to establish with the employee what guidance has been given by the medics as to life style management. The underlying causes of murmurs, which is a pretty generic term, can be significant but not all are. It is quite possible that no additional controls will be required.
With that specific info then you can assess risks arising in respect of work activity.

p48
kevkel  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2014 10:04:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

Clive765- Just research the work and lifestyle limitations having a heart murmur can present. Armed with this information meet with the person and their manager and see how the work they are required to do is affected and mitigate! Use their GP info as a starting point, with persons permission of course.
I am just this minute preparing to do a RA for a person with an implantable cadioverter defibrillator! I cant see any hazard or how they might be affected yet but I will conduct this anyway. That way I can reassure myself and others that all is ok and see if I can support the person in any way to make their working life a little easier.
Kevin
stonecold  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2014 11:22:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

kevkel wrote:
Clive765- Just research the work and lifestyle limitations having a heart murmur can present. Armed with this information meet with the person and their manager and see how the work they are required to do is affected and mitigate! Use their GP info as a starting point, with persons permission of course.
I am just this minute preparing to do a RA for a person with an implantable cadioverter defibrillator! I cant see any hazard or how they might be affected yet but I will conduct this anyway. That way I can reassure myself and others that all is ok and see if I can support the person in any way to make their working life a little easier.
Kevin


Im always very wary about attempting to do these individual type health related assessments. Altough im competent to be a general safety advisor (NEBOSH Dip etc) I dont consider myself so in regards to medical issues. Thats whats Occupational health are for. How can a risk assessment be deemed suitbable and sufficient if you are not at all medically qualified to undertake such an assessment?
kevkel  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2014 12:59:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

Stonecold,
I am not sure you need to be medically qualified to conduct a risk assessment into how someones health is affected by work. Is that not what we do everyday? The fact that the issue is a heart murmur does not change our role or the advice we are likely to give as safety professionals. We are not proferring medical advice regarding treatments, medications, exercise etc, but rather looking at how the work they have to complete will affect their health which is compromised by a heart condition.
Kevin
jay  
#11 Posted : 21 November 2014 13:08:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The risk assessment will be dependent upon the quality of information from the GP. I would not depoend upon a fit note for that as GP's do not have adequate detail. On the otherhand, one can request additional information that the GP holds, subject to consent & data protection aspects being adhered to. One may construe that the person being risk assessed can also provide the information.
That is why for more complex health conditions, the risk assessment should be based on Occupational Health Physician medical advice, who has adequate information on what nature of activities are involved in the workplace.

On the other hand, for us, when somebody returns to work after a simple leg bone fracture on crutches, I do not involve Occupational Health physician as that is not a complex health condition.
stonecold  
#12 Posted : 21 November 2014 13:11:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

kevkel wrote:
Stonecold,
I am not sure you need to be medically qualified to conduct a risk assessment into how someones health is affected by work. Is that not what we do everyday? The fact that the issue is a heart murmur does not change our role or the advice we are likely to give as safety professionals. We are not proferring medical advice regarding treatments, medications, exercise etc, but rather looking at how the work they have to complete will affect their health which is compromised by a heart condition.
Kevin


General health is one thing, a significant underlying health condition e.g heart condition is another. Sholud things go wrong, you could potentially find yourself in court. In such a situation are you confident you could convince a solicitor that you were competent to carry out a sutibale and sufficent risk assessment in regard to a significant health condition? Again I would advise using occupational health for such matters.
Clive765  
#13 Posted : 25 November 2014 16:59:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Clive765

Great help from everybody and interesting to see differing opinions.
As mentioned earlier, we do not have an OH facility, would anyone advise getting in out side help?

Clive
jwk  
#14 Posted : 25 November 2014 17:04:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Mmm, I think it might be worth a few quid to get an OH person in for an opinion. Heart murmurs can be something or nothing, that's the problem, and I'm not sure how a layperson would know which sort they were dealing with. As Jay says, the GP might help, for a fee. Either way it would be worth spending the money I think,

John
David Bannister  
#15 Posted : 25 November 2014 18:25:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Some heart murmurs are so inconsequential that the "patient" has absolutely no effects whatsoever and leads a totally normal life. The "patient" will know how this affects their life and work.
ashleywillson  
#16 Posted : 26 November 2014 07:31:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

I would be consulting HR on this one as you don't have OH. Have you considered obtaining a letter from the employees doctor? Yes you will have to pay for it but then you can put any specific questions to that doctor about the employee ensuring that the employee is fit for the role they are undertaking.

I wouldn't be risk assessing this just yet, after all, what would your controls be (employee must carry own defibrillator?). Perhaps consider putting something into your provision of first aid risk assessment for a pre-existing condition.

You have said you will be speaking to the employee on their return from their GP but bear in mind they may play the condition down in fear of losing their job, hence why asking the GP the questions is more likely to get a better answer.

I hope that helps, but if you need more from me please PM me.
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