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simplesafety  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:06:42(UTC)
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simplesafety

Hi All An engineer has asked to to find out if there are any Lux levels and what they should be for general work and for inspection. We make precision bearings. Ive looked at PUWER which says light levels should be suitable and suffiecient and better for inspection. The HSE light at work also provide basic info but no levels. Does anyone know of any lower lux levels of lighting for the workplace? My initial though is - suitable and sufficient. Thanks in advance
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:11:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Look at the guidance from CIBSE- they have suggested levels for everything you can think of.
walker  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:32:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue What do your none destructive test methods standards say?
Chappell34119  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:35:14(UTC)
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Chappell34119

Lighting levels (both average and minimum values) are detailed in HSG38, have a look on page 28. This should cover the info you require.
chas  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2014 09:59:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

You may find the detail you need at the following; http://www.cibse.org/soc...ll/lighting-publications
JohnW  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2014 10:29:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

walker wrote:
This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue
Lighting has everything to do H&S, see PUWER reg 21. e.g. try using a bandsaw safely in 75 lux and with a shadow over the blade. I get customers to aim for 200 Lux around a bandsaw, milling machine, lathe etc either attached/adjustable lamps or very good ceiling lighting. Some workshops, though, have very high ceilings and need both.
Isaac J Threadbare  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2014 10:30:19(UTC)
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Isaac J Threadbare

walker  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2014 10:57:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

JohnW wrote:
walker wrote:
This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue
Lighting has everything to do H&S, see PUWER reg 21. e.g. try using a bandsaw safely in 75 lux and with a shadow over the blade. I get customers to aim for 200 Lux around a bandsaw, milling machine, lathe etc either attached/adjustable lamps or very good ceiling lighting. Some workshops, though, have very high ceilings and need both.
He was asking about suitable light levels for inspection, not machinery operation.
Isaac J Threadbare  
#9 Posted : 20 November 2014 11:14:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Isaac J Threadbare

Wouldn't the inspection of precision bearings have something to do with safety? As in if a defect was missed, the part may fail and depending on where the bearing was placed have an effect on safety?
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2014 11:23:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Workplace (Health and Safety) regulations No 8 (1) - “Every workplace shall have suitable and sufficient light”- so it is Health and Safety. And the ACOP makes it clear that suitable and sufficient means being able to do the job safely (cos you can see it) and without straining your eyes
jay  
#11 Posted : 20 November 2014 11:45:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The Society of Light & Lighting, which is a part of CIBSE has authoritative guidance for lighting levels, not only to undertake tasks safely , but also effectively ( as both tend to be inter-related. Not having adequate lighting for inspection may have adverse effect on eyesight ) In its lighting handbook, for the approaches to industrial lighting in context of visual inspection:- Rapid visual inspection calls for off-axis detection of defects. How well this can be done will depend on the visibility of the defect and, if there are other objects in the area to be searched, the conspicuity of the defect. There are many different methods of lighting for visual inspection. All depend on the use of lighting to make the defect more visible and more conspicuous. factor to consider are:- (a) To prevent veiling reflections, light must not coincide with angle of view. (b) The observation of specular detail on a diffuse background is aided if reflected light does coincide with angle of view. (c) Low-angle lighting used to emphasise surface irregularities. (d) Reflected light from a source having a large surface area facilitates detection of blemishes in a polished surface. (e) Diffuse lighting from an extended source aids typesetting. (f) Irregularities in transparent materials are revealed using a transmitted light from a diffuse source. (g) Silhouette is an effective means of checking contour. (h) Directional lighting is needed to reveal form and texture. There is likely to be more detail in SLL Lighting Guide 1: Industrial lighting.
achrn  
#12 Posted : 20 November 2014 11:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

A Kurdziel wrote:
Workplace (Health and Safety) regulations No 8 (1) - “Every workplace shall have suitable and sufficient light”- so it is Health and Safety. And the ACOP makes it clear that suitable and sufficient means being able to do the job safely (cos you can see it) and without straining your eyes
Surely there is potentially a dramatic difference in the level of lighting required to do a task safely and that required to do it quickly and efficiently. I can read fine print perfectly safely even in quite dim light. I read it faster in good, bright, but diffuse light.
JohnW  
#13 Posted : 20 November 2014 14:38:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

walker wrote:
He was asking about suitable light levels for inspection, not machinery operation.
walker, he was also asking about general work in premises where engineers make precision bearings....
JohnW wrote:
walker wrote:
This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue
Lighting has everything to do H&S, see PUWER reg 21. e.g. try using a bandsaw safely in 75 lux and with a shadow over the blade. I get customers to aim for 200 Lux around a bandsaw, milling machine, lathe etc either attached/adjustable lamps or very good ceiling lighting. Some workshops, though, have very high ceilings and need both.
Salis  
#14 Posted : 20 November 2014 16:19:19(UTC)
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Salis

If its a NDT Inspection, the Inspector needs a min of 500 Lux. But that is only for the inspection.
A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 20 November 2014 16:59:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

achrn wrote:
A Kurdziel wrote:
Workplace (Health and Safety) regulations No 8 (1) - “Every workplace shall have suitable and sufficient light”- so it is Health and Safety. And the ACOP makes it clear that suitable and sufficient means being able to do the job safely (cos you can see it) and without straining your eyes
Surely there is potentially a dramatic difference in the level of lighting required to do a task safely and that required to do it quickly and efficiently. I can read fine print perfectly safely even in quite dim light. I read it faster in good, bright, but diffuse light.
Not convinced about that argument. If you have taken light readings in a room you will be surprised in the difference in lux level between the back the room and nearest the windows. I know I was. Our eyes are not very good at perceiving actual light levels. Instead they try to adapt. The problem with that is as the light levels get lower our brains start to fill in the gaps, we assume that things are when in reality they are not there. Perception is weird thing and is as much to do with our internal ‘model view’ of the world as with what our senses perceive. That is what causes optical illusions Here lies the danger, we may see things that aren’t there or miss things that are there.
stonecold  
#16 Posted : 21 November 2014 06:49:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

walker wrote:
This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue What do your none destructive test methods standards say?
Suitable lighting is 100 per cent a safety issue...its got nothing to do with quality
walker  
#17 Posted : 21 November 2014 08:23:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I read this as a question about light levels for NDT inspection. Everyone else seems to think its about general engineering workshop light levels which I agree are safety significant. NDT is far more than "a bloke having a look at components" (eg magnetic particle and dye penetrant crack detection) and there are quality standards covering this, particularly precision bearings, but it would also cover light levels for initial visual. I was just trying to point him in that direction. 500 lux min sounds about right to me.
Isaac J Threadbare  
#18 Posted : 21 November 2014 08:42:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Isaac J Threadbare

http://www.arca53.dsl.pi...dex_files/lightlevel.htm indicates 1500 lux for inspection.
walker  
#19 Posted : 21 November 2014 09:00:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Isaac J Threadbare wrote:
http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/lightlevel.htm indicates 1500 lux for inspection.
Agree: typo on my part
achrn  
#20 Posted : 21 November 2014 09:16:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

stonecold wrote:
walker wrote:
This is nothing to do with H&S its a quality issue What do your none destructive test methods standards say?
Suitable lighting is 100 per cent a safety issue...its got nothing to do with quality
If a given inspection can be carried out twice as fast in better light, surely that's a quality and efficiency issue, not a safety issue. If better light levels means more of the faulty components are weeded out during assembly, and then a smaller proportion of assembled bearings fail final testing, that's a quality issue - it doesn't necessarily have any impact on anyone's safety.
JohnW  
#21 Posted : 21 November 2014 10:23:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I'll say again, look at the original post, it wasn't just about inspection, I quote:
Quote:
...if there are any Lux levels and what they should be for general work ...
So safety is an issue if general work involves machinery John
achrn  
#22 Posted : 21 November 2014 12:13:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

JohnW wrote:
I'll say again, look at the original post, it wasn't just about inspection, I quote:
Quote:
...if there are any Lux levels and what they should be for general work ...
So safety is an issue if general work involves machinery John
I don't duisopute that. I don't think anyone has disputed that. What is at dispute is that lighting is (I quote) "100 per cent a safety issue". It isn't.
andybz  
#23 Posted : 21 November 2014 12:37:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
andybz

There is a health angle as well - assuming we include eye strain and its possible implications. If anyone is complaining about low light, this is something you should be thinking about.
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