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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 28 November 2014 11:15:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

3 storey block of flats with five flats on each floor. Residents are elderly. There are currently fire extinguishers provided in the common areas. The issue is that in the event of a fire the occupants would not be able to even lift an extinguisher let alone use it. Is there a requirement to provide extinguishers?
A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 28 November 2014 11:19:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What about staff who might have to come along to help get the residents get out if there is a fire?
decimomal  
#3 Posted : 28 November 2014 11:22:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thanks AK but this does not apply. They are residents in their own homes. The landlord is a charity and my understanding is that the relationship is similar to a local authority or housing association set up.
SBH  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2014 11:28:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

In my opinion there is probably not a requirement if the common areas are external areas - landings etc. However if they are inside a building, and are evacuation routes I would say yes. SBH
Martin Rudd  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2014 15:05:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Martin Rudd

Is it a stay-put policy? If yes then why are you putting fire extinguihers in common area. I would be very concerned about a block of flats if it required staff to fire fight in order to secure safe evacuation. If it's an evcauation route then answer is fire protection of escape routes not portable fire fighting equipment. See Building regns. Approved Doc B. If the flats don't comply with AD B then it's a real problem. The answer may well involve increased fire detection to support a full evacuation procedure ass compensatory measure. This is not uncoomon in some flat conversions but if its purpose builtit should comply with AD B and a stay put policy may be appropriate. This needs a good assessor to gprovide details. What does the fire Risk Assessment say and does it give a rationale for its conclusions.
decimomal  
#6 Posted : 28 November 2014 15:14:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

This is historical; we have only just got involved, but previous fire risk assessments were carried out by a well known fire and security company who required fire extinguishers to be provided. We have raised the question with insurers and are hoping for feedback from them.
peterL  
#7 Posted : 17 December 2014 15:22:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Hi, If you have concerns re the use of these extinguishers involve the local Fire Brigade and ask their opinion, I am aware of several sleeping accommodations that do not provide extinguishers with agreement of the Brigade, subject to safe escape routes, ability to use or stay put policies - it all depends on your premises configuration and resident type. Regards Pete,
decimomal  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2014 15:29:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you Peter.
stonecold  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2014 12:54:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Decimomal wrote:
3 storey block of flats with five flats on each floor. Residents are elderly. There are currently fire extinguishers provided in the common areas. The issue is that in the event of a fire the occupants would not be able to even lift an extinguisher let alone use it.
I know plenty of elderly people who can quite easily lift such things as fire extuinghuishers...many eldery people as you pout it (65 plus) are quite sprightly these day you know :)
stonecold  
#10 Posted : 18 December 2014 12:57:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

so not providing such equipment becuase there is a presumption older people cant lift them would be very sticky ground
decimomal  
#11 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:03:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

stonecold wrote:
so not providing such equipment becuase there is a presumption older people cant lift them would be very sticky ground
Comment noted but not really answered the question?
MrsBlue  
#12 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:10:51(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

stonecold wrote:
Decimomal wrote:
3 storey block of flats with five flats on each floor. Residents are elderly. There are currently fire extinguishers provided in the common areas. The issue is that in the event of a fire the occupants would not be able to even lift an extinguisher let alone use it.
I know plenty of elderly people who can quite easily lift such things as fire extuinghuishers...many eldery people as you pout it (65 plus) are quite sprightly these day you know :)
Posted: 18 December 2014 12:57:16 so not providing such equipment becuase there is a presumption older people cant lift them would be very sticky ground Someone always lowers the tone - a good series of posts and one I have learnt from seeing as I am in the same boat. It is obvious that Decimomal had no intention of denigrating the elderly.
decimomal  
#13 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:16:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you Mrs Blue. This is why some colleagues are reluctant to ask questions on the forum. We canvas our peers opinions and do not always get the response we expect (e.g. they express an opinion without answering the original question)!
stonecold  
#14 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:50:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

I actually thought my comment was quite valid...the elderly residents are obviously a factor else you wouldnt have mentioned them.
decimomal  
#15 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:52:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Decimomal wrote:
3 storey block of flats with five flats on each floor. Residents are elderly. There are currently fire extinguishers provided in the common areas. The issue is that in the event of a fire the occupants would not be able to even lift an extinguisher let alone use it. My question was: Is there a requirement to provide extinguishers?
stonecold  
#16 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:54:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

You stated the residents are elderly....why else mention that unless you felt it was a relevant factor?
JohnW  
#17 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:57:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Decimomal wrote:
...... previous fire risk assessments were carried out by a well known fire and security company who required fire extinguishers to be provided.
This is a common problem: fire risk assessor is the supplier of fire-fighting equipment. They could be overstating the need for FE's to make a few quid? As suggested above, get advice from local Fire & Rescue or from insurance co. If they suggest no need for FE's then you will need someone else to do your fire risk assessment.
peter gotch  
#18 Posted : 18 December 2014 14:11:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Decinomal Local Government Association publication "Fire safety in purpose-built flats" indicates extinguishers in common parts not normally necessary. Where provided LGA indicate that consideration should be given to whether extinguishers are "appropriate", or perhaps "undesirable".
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