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peter gotch  
#1 Posted : 18 December 2014 10:47:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Possible hint as to what has been changed since CD261 consultation. http://www.hseni.gov.uk/...orthern-ireland-2007-cdm Still absolutely no clear direction on HSE or CONIAC pages.
6foot4  
#2 Posted : 18 December 2014 11:11:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
6foot4

Thanks Peter. That's interesting. Some questions I have: Is there any idea when the HSE might release some more information? Is it a certainty that April 2015 will see the introduction of CDM15?
walker  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2014 12:31:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

As many of us predicted long ago; its looking more and more likely it will be post election
achrn  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:44:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

That is interesting, since the draft does reflect many of the rumours of what the post-consultation changes are. I think they've still got Principal Designer duties wrong though - by my reading there is still an absolute duty on the PD to ensure the behaviour of all other designers, which includes people they don't have any control over, and potentially people they don't even know about. With respect to whether we'll get CDM2015, deadline day is 9 January I think, since the common commencement date is 6 April and there's a commitment to publish legislation 12 weeks before it is in force, which gets you to 9 January (unless they work the weekend...)
peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:55:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

6foot4. Silence is NOT golden! Paper presented to CONIAC meeting on 19 November with indication that this would be posted on HSE site shortly afterwards. I don't count a month later as "shortly afterwards". There's also the indication that the draft guidance will be available on 9 January on both HSE and CITB websites, but I'm not holding my breath. There has been no promise that the regulations would be made by 9 January. Require to be made at least 40 Parliamentary working days before coming into force. This gives the minimum required time for either House to vote against. What is stated in the NI consultation document to be the final GB Impact Assessment (but with no evidence of signature) claims less than half the savings of the Impact Assessment in CD261 whilst at the same time admitting that the regulations would have a net cost to householders. Given that the parent directive is due for renegotiation within the next ~12 months why the ongoing panic to introduce legislative change?
Stedman  
#6 Posted : 18 December 2014 20:12:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

peter gotch wrote:
Given that the parent directive is due for renegotiation within the next ~12 months why the ongoing panic to introduce legislative change?
Peter, I think that the panic is that the development of these Regulations started over three years ago under the Cabinet Office ‘Red Tape Challenge’ initiative rules and failure to sign these off before the General Election raises further questions over capability of this policy. I am of the opinion that this change in legislation will happen, however I will not be surprised if there is no guidance issued and the HSE remain quite about this just before the Election, however I may also be wrong!
Alfasev  
#7 Posted : 19 December 2014 11:17:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

I agree, it is only a matter of timing. I believe that the new regulations will be brought in after the election and that the Government already know that the parent directive will not change substantially. From my experience there appears to be a myth that the proposed regulations just involve the simple replacement of CDM-C by the Principal Designer. It is only when you read and study the proposed regulation that you begin to understand the subtly of the wording. There are significant new duties for Clients and Designers, and an increase in the level of those duties proposed. I think there are weaknesses in the current regulations which I believe the HSE are intent on strengthening. The requirement to design out hazards has not really worked and it is too easy to freeze out the CDM-C making it a bureaucratic role. There has also been a lack of enforcement on everyone except the Principal Contractor. There will be no ACOP. I think the current ACOP interprets the regulation sympathetically compared to the actual wording in the regulations. We have to interpret the legislation ourselves which I have no doubt will be further defined by the courts through appeals or litigation. Therefore I predict a harsh legal interpretation will prevail. Like most H&S law you cannot look at the proposed regulations in isolation. I think Fee For Intervention will play it part, particularly when the HSE look at designers. I would appreciate member’s thoughts.
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 19 December 2014 15:27:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Alfasev I doubt that the Member States intended the Directive to apply to householders and the UK was by no means the only State to be found wanting in Martha Nussbaumer case (in Italy). The NI Consultation Document has some subtle amendments to the Impact Assessment submitted to HSE Board in August including in particular uder the heading Key assumptions.... "There is a risk of infraction proceedings if GB fails to make the changes...." The only suggestion that infraction proceedings are a risk as regards this Directive that I have seen has been from HSE winding up the message that we have to do this!
DavidBrede  
#9 Posted : 22 December 2014 21:23:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidBrede

I think there is a political perspective to this. Do Tory candidates want to explain to voters in April why their conservatories are going to cost more due to legislation coming from the EU?
allanwood  
#10 Posted : 22 December 2014 22:06:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
allanwood

I am led to believe that there will be further guidance available in early January.
walker  
#11 Posted : 23 December 2014 10:10:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

DavidBrede wrote:
I think there is a political perspective to this. Do Tory candidates want to explain to voters in April why their conservatories are going to cost more due to legislation coming from the EU?
Quite! Plus it was done under the red tape initiative which would expose that for what it is, even to the most rabid tory
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