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matelot1965  
#1 Posted : 07 January 2015 18:51:01(UTC)
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matelot1965

Not being a COSHH guru. I am after some advice. We use nitrogen gas under pressure to inflate the tyres on aircraft so this is obviously carried out in a large hangar and not a confined space. We have risk assessed the activity and stated that asphyxiation will only occur through misuse. So there is obviously a significant risk in that respect. I have been informed that as Nitrogen is an inert gas it does not require a COSHH assessment ? Can anyone tell me if this is correct ? Many thanks in advance and hope my explanation is not too vague.
leadbelly  
#2 Posted : 07 January 2015 19:52:28(UTC)
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leadbelly

Indeed. matelot Nitrogen is not covered by COSHH (see EH40) but that does not mean a risk assessment is not required! LB
matelot1965  
#3 Posted : 07 January 2015 19:54:37(UTC)
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matelot1965

Hi leadbelly VMT for that yep risk assessment done but no requirement for COSHH assessment is all I was after Cheers fella
Ian Bell  
#4 Posted : 07 January 2015 20:50:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

As an ex aircraft engineer myself, I would agree that nitrogen should not present a risk when used as described to inflate aircraft tyres. However it DOES need a COSHH assessment to be strictly correct. It is a natural asphyxiant. It get caught under the definition of a 'substance hazardous to health', under clause (e) which, not being a substance falling within sub-paragraphs (a) to (d), because of its chemical or toxicological properties and the way it is used or is present at the workplace creates a risk to health; The CoSHH L5 ACOP then goes on to say within section 2 guidance, paragraph 9 9 COSHH applies to a wide range of substances and preparations (mixtures of two or more substances) which have the potential to cause harm to health if they are ingested, inhaled, or are absorbed by, or come into contact with, the skin, or other body membranes. Hazardous substances can occur in many forms, including solids, liquids, vapours, gases and fumes. They can also be simple asphyxiants or biological agents (see paragraphs 14–23). Ref 2013 L5 CoSHH Approved Code of Practice.
toe  
#5 Posted : 07 January 2015 21:12:16(UTC)
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toe

quote=leadbelly]Indeed. matelot Nitrogen is not covered by COSHH (see EH40) but that does not mean a risk assessment is not required! LB
I'm not sure that just because a substance is not covered by EH40 that its not covered by COSHH. For example welding fumes are not in EH40 but require a COSHH assessment, and also nitrogen as being identified as an asphyxiant in a previous post. And also airborne contaminants, in which we may not know what the contaminants may be in some incidents, but these are still covered by COSHH.
Jane Blunt  
#6 Posted : 07 January 2015 22:26:54(UTC)
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Jane Blunt

Ian is correct. Asphyxiants are mopped up in COSHH. Here, however you have to ask yourself what the potential for asphyxiation actually is. If it is almost zero, as your post suggests, then I suggest you don't need to do anything other than record that fact. With large tyres I suspect that there are bigger risks from tyre failure at pressure. In my own workplace we do have to consider nitrogen under COSHH because we have piped supplies which have around 20 000 cubic metres of gas available at the other end of the pipe. If you have a leak in that you have a problem.
matelot1965  
#7 Posted : 07 January 2015 22:59:39(UTC)
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matelot1965

Gents/ladies Thanks for the replies so nothing definitive but differences of opinion (debate is always good). and some very good points raised. I will see what other posts arise and will pass all your comments onto the H+S manager for him to make a decision. Cheers
leadbelly  
#8 Posted : 08 January 2015 07:12:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
leadbelly

Matelot I apologise for misleading you. Although I don't think nitrogen should be covered by COSHH, the HSE think differently and I should have checked the ACoP before rushing to answer your query. Interestingly, there was no mention of COSHH in this prosecution: http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2010/coi-wm-24910.htm LB
jwk  
#9 Posted : 08 January 2015 09:09:20(UTC)
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jwk

I would have to agree with Ian that Nitrogen is an asphyxiant, but can we put this in context here. The atmosphere is 78% nitrogen; this causes no harm (beyond sustaining life which is of course a terminal condition). A release of a relatively small quanitity of nitrogen into a large volume of air is desperately unlikely to raise levels of nitrogen to the point where it will become hazardous. I can't see the need for COSHH here; nitrogen might need to be considered in a confined spaces risk assessment where relevant, or where in Jane's case it is present in very large quantities, otherwise, no, John
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2015 09:35:58(UTC)
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A Kurdziel

This is where the current system falls down. Strictly speaking nitrogen is not a substance hazardous to health as it does not come under the definitions under reg 2 of COSHH. It is an asphyxiant, which is not a toxilogical or chemical property but in circumstances where it displaces oxygen such as in a confined space it can be a killer. We use liquid nitrogen and I tell my staff to include nitrogen in the COSHH assessments as this will cover them under the wider duty to assess risk.
Ian Bell  
#11 Posted : 08 January 2015 11:38:28(UTC)
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Ian Bell

Agree totally, that for inflating tyres, CoSHH assessment is a one line comment. Along the lines of 'ensure adequate ventilation, no significant health risk' As we know the atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen. However as a wider substance management point, if not managed and the hazards of nitrogen are not recognised under CoSSHH, which other h&s legislation applies to nitrogen and other simple asphxyiants? Confined Spaces obviously only apply in certain circumstances. Nitrogen has very real risks, in the process industries its is widely used as a purge gas/to suppress flammable atmospheres. Applying CoSHH principles even to asphyiants is a good memory aid, even when there are no classic chemicals issues eg corrosive burn, irritants, toxics. There however very real human physiological effects, namely asphyxiation risks.
A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 08 January 2015 13:02:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Quote=Ian Bell]Agree totally, that for inflating tyres, CoSHH assessment is a one line comment. Along the lines of 'ensure adequate ventilation, no significant health risk' As we know the atmosphere is about 79% nitrogen. However as a wider substance management point, if not managed and the hazards of nitrogen are not recognised under Coshh, which other h&s legislation applies to nitrogen and other simple asphxyiants? Confined Spaces obviously only apply in certain circumstances. Nitrogen has very real risks, in the process industries its is widely used as a purge gas/to suppress flammable atmospheres. Applying CoSHH principles even to asphyiants is a good memory aid, even when there are no classic chemicals issues eg corrosive burn, irritants, toxics. There however very real human physiological effects, namely asphyxiation risks.
Managment of H&S regs basically, that and a measure of common sense
Jane Blunt  
#13 Posted : 08 January 2015 13:51:43(UTC)
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Jane Blunt

Having polished my 'nerd' badge I have done some checking. I cannot find any mention of asphyxiants in the 3rd edition of the L5 ACOP dating from 1999 (although as I have it in hard copy rather than pdf it may lurk in these somewhere). However, I note that the definition of 'hazardous to health' changed quite a bit between 1999 and 2002 and this is when asphyxiants got drawn into the definition. I guess it was perceived to be an anomaly that you could be killed by nitrogen, but it wasn't considered hazardous to health. From the current L5 The guidance includes this: 14 COSHH covers those gases and vapours which, when present at high concentrations in air at the workplace, act as simple asphyxiants. These can displace the oxygen content to such an extent that life cannot be supported. Many of these asphyxiant gases are odourless, colourless and not readily detectable. Monitoring the oxygen content of the air is a means of assessing whether their presence poses a risk to the health of employees. The ACOP includes this: 57 The risk assessment should consider the work activity, including: ■■all the substances hazardous to health (including biological agents and simple asphyxiants) arising from the work (used, produced, synthesised, created as waste or by-products, or released from processes or during accidents, incidents and emergencies); ■■work done by sub-contractors, at the workplace, that may expose employees to substances hazardous to health. While this is of no particular concern in the case at hand because of the (lack of) quantity of nitrogen, others may be interested. Small changes in wording of legislation sometimes creep up on us. Leadbelly's link is an interesting one. The dividing line between being overcome and surviving or dying is a very fine one. The IP is lucky to be alive.
Ian Bell  
#14 Posted : 08 January 2015 13:53:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Sadly common sense cannot be relied upon. To me, its a sort of word association exercise With the exception of lead and asbestos, having their own regulations, any mention of a chemical element, compound or mixture or biological agent links with CoSHH. If flammable as well, then an automatic memory link to DSEAR. As per my original comment, in the great tradition of UK safety regulation, there is usually a 'catch all' requirement which the HSE can cling on to, if they can't think of anything else to pin on someone. In the case of CoSHH, clause (e) as mentioned.
Ian Bell  
#15 Posted : 08 January 2015 13:56:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Jane you are quite right about how simple asphyxiate gases were brought under the remit of CoSHH. I have noticed those ACOP changes over the years. Been playing this h&s game for too long!!
chris.packham  
#16 Posted : 08 January 2015 14:28:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Sorry folks, but Ian Bell has it right. He has quoted the relevant paragraph from the COSHH Regulations. There is no chemical that is excluded from COSHH. What is important is how it is used. We normally purchase chemicals to use for a purpose. It is when we use them that the potential for damage to health arises. Thus it is the task that is the key and on which we must base our risk assessment. Whether a chemical is listed in EH40, or in CLP with a Hazard Statement, is irrelevant. There are thousands of chemicals that will not be in EH40 or bear a Hazard Statement but which can, under certain circumstances, cause damage to health. Check out the sixth edition of the ACoP for COSHH. Several paragraphs deal with this topic. Para. 35 reads: === When deciding whether the substances used or produced in the workplace are covered by COSHH, employers should also consider the following: Different forms of a substance may present different hazards, eg substances may not be hazardous in solid form but may be hazardous when ground into fine powder or dust that can be breathed into the lungs. Nanoparticles (ie particles less than 100 nanometers) may be more toxic than larger particles of the same chemical substance. Impurities in a substance can make it more hazardous, eg crystalline silica is often present in minerals which would otherwise present little or no hazard. Some substances have a fibrous form which may present a potentially serious risk to health if the fibres are of a certain size or shape. Some substances have a known health effect but the mechanism causing it is unknown, eg certain dusts of textile raw materials cause byssinosis. Exposure to two or more substances at the same time or one after the other may have an added or synergistic effect. Epidemiological or other data, eg reports of illness due to new and emerging agents, indicate that a biological agent that does not already appear in The Approved List of biological agents could nevertheless cause a hazard to health. One-off, emergency situations arising out of the work activity, such as a dangerous chemical reaction or fire, could foreseeably produce a substance hazardous to health. ‘Wet work’ is one of the most frequently and consistently reported causes of irritant occupational contact dermatitis. ‘Wet work’ is the term used to describe tasks involving prolonged or frequent contact with water, particularly in combination with soaps and detergents. === With regard to liquid nitrogen, when used in a laboratory it can certainly represent a significant hazard to health due to the extremely low temperature. When used in enclosed spaces it can represent a risk due to asphyxiation. When used with the correct equipment to fill aircraft tyres the risk will be much lower, but consider possible unexpected events, such as a hose rupturing releasing an instense cold stream of gas. As para 35 states, water – which as far as I am aware is not listed in EH40 nor bears a Hazard Statement – is actually the most common causative chemical for occupational contact dermatitis. And wearing occlusive gloves is equivalent to having hands in water and needs a risk assessment, even though you are not directly using a chemical. Methinks some people need to go back and revisit how they approach COSHH. Chris
Ian Bell  
#17 Posted : 08 January 2015 15:08:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Temperature of a substance, as such isn't a specific concern of CoSHH in terms of hot or cold burns/injuries. And here's me no longer CMIOSH or a member...so I guess some would say I'm not qualified to give h&s advice.....
chris.packham  
#18 Posted : 08 January 2015 15:48:43(UTC)
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chris.packham

Ian Technically you are correct according to Regulation 5 - 1(b). However, would you want to have to defend in court an employer who neglected to assess the risk of a nitrogen burn and provide the appropriate control measures and whose employee was then seriously burned? I have had a client warned by and HSE inspector about not having assessed this risk (before the introduction of FFI!). Chris
Amos29969  
#19 Posted : 08 January 2015 15:51:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Amos29969

We have a bank of 12 Nitrogen cylinders linked together, used for pressure decay testing of our products. There's a COSHH assessment in place and whilst referring to temperature, included the cylinder bank in our fire assessment and site hazard plan for the Fire Brigade.
RayRapp  
#20 Posted : 08 January 2015 16:16:39(UTC)
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RayRapp

Who said health and safety was just common sense?
Ian Bell  
#21 Posted : 08 January 2015 18:15:17(UTC)
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Ian Bell

Chris - no issues as such, of course the temperature effects of liquid nitrogen and other cryogenic liquids/gases need to be assessed for cold burn risks. But equally I see little merit in 'applying' incorrect safety legislation where it doesn't apply to certain circumstances. I'm sure a student should get 'nil points' in a NEBOSH exam for stating CoSHH covered the temperature of a substance. Its poor practice if nothing else.
jay  
#22 Posted : 08 January 2015 18:24:12(UTC)
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jay

In my view, the hazards from nitrogen gas are not health related, i.e COSHH. Even if Confined spaces regs do not apply , a risk assessment under the management regs is required to ensure that the ventilation rate is adequate, and that there are emergency procedures in place for dealing with large releases. Extract from a BOC Gases Compressed Nitrogen Gas SDS: SECTION 2: Hazards identification 2.1. Classification of the substance or mixture Classification acc. to Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008/EC (CLP/GHS) Press. Gas (Compressed gas) - Contains gas under pressure; may explode if heated. Classification acc. to Directive 67/548/EEC & 1999/45/EC Not classified as hazardous to health. Asphyxiant in high concentrations. Risk advice to man and the environment In high concentrations may cause asphyxiation. Compressed gas. 2.2. Label elements - Signal word Warning - Hazard Statements H280 Contains gas under pressure; mayexplode if heated. EIGA-As Asphyxiant in high concentrations. - Precautionary Statements Precautionary Statement Prevention None. Precautionary Statement Response None. Precautionary Statement Storage P403 Store in a well-ventilated place. Precautionary Statement Disposal None. 2.3. Other hazards None.
Ian Bell  
#23 Posted : 08 January 2015 21:34:58(UTC)
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Ian Bell

If the hazards from nitrogen aren't a health related, what else is the hazard? Breathing in a gas that the lungs can't use to sustain life, seems like a pretty major health hazard to me, if inhaled in a sufficient concentration i.e. an asphyxiant. In a full enriched nitrogen atmosphere only a few breaths - 3 to 4, is highly likely to render the victim incapable of recovering. If you go onto the American Chemical Safety Board website, there are quite a number of videos/computer animations highlighting the hazards of nitrogen. Whether you agree or not, within the UK nitrogen is covered by CoSHH in terms of safety management/assessment. As previous to me I don't see it as any more complicated than being a known chemical element, compound, mixture, preparation, dust, biological agent - which ever applies - think makes an automatic link to CoSHH. Just as 'ladder' = working at height (prime risk/hazard) Machine or tool = PUWER
Ian Bell  
#24 Posted : 09 January 2015 01:15:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

http://www.csb.gov/hazar...f-nitrogen-asphyxiation/ A 12 minute video, if you have the time to watch.
A Kurdziel  
#25 Posted : 09 January 2015 09:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I wish I had kept my mouth shut! In my opinion nitrogen gas as an asphyxiant is not covered by COSHH as it does not possess any toxic or chemical properties that are harmful to human health(if anything the lack of chemical properties is in this case this it does not sustain life). Nevertheless staff at our place use our COSHH procedures to assess the risk from nitrogen. If it all went wrong and the HSE tried to prosecute under COSHH we would challenge that but then all the HSE would do is prosecute under Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 or the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs. This is one of the stations where the NEBOSH type issue(is it COSHH or not?) is not really relevant in the real world.
leadbelly  
#26 Posted : 09 January 2015 10:20:39(UTC)
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leadbelly

Thank you, AK; I'm glad I'm not the only one! LB
Ian Bell  
#27 Posted : 09 January 2015 10:33:51(UTC)
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Ian Bell

Well the CoSHH L5 Acop clearly says asphyxiation risks are covered under CoSHH, so trying to argue otherwise, would seem to be a losing argument in a court case. See the sub clause (e) of the definition of a hazardous substance. Take another example, carbon dioxide, an asphyxiation risk in low concentrations, but is considered to be toxic in high concentrations. Where is this relevant? In the newly developing Carbon Capture & Storage process plants that are currently being designed to satisfy environmental targets/emissions. I agree with Chris Packham, people need to refresh their understanding of CoSHH.
Mebo  
#28 Posted : 09 January 2015 10:44:38(UTC)
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Mebo

The asphyxiation risk is real. I worked for a time at a company making superconducting magnets for body scanners. They were cooled with liquid nitrogen. An installation engineer died while carrying out the nitrogen fill. This was in a room much smaller than a hanger, but by no means a confined space.
jay  
#29 Posted : 09 January 2015 17:07:38(UTC)
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jay

matelot1965  
#30 Posted : 09 January 2015 17:32:56(UTC)
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matelot1965

Gents/Ladies, Very many thanks for your input on this subject. It really has created some debate. There are conflicting opinions/views with no definitive. I suppose you could only get a definitive answer by asking the HSE. Normally I would have done the research myself but with my NEBOSH diploma unit A exam on January 20th my priorities where elsewhere. Thanks once again
Ian Bell  
#31 Posted : 10 January 2015 17:52:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell

Matelot - There is a definitive answer, as per my previous comments regarding the CoSHH L5 Acop and the issue in question. As we all should know, you would have a difficult job counter arguing against an Acop, give the legal standing of such documents. It still surprises me that we have experienced (judging from previous posts) safety adviser/occupational hygienists seemingly not understanding the full scope of the CoSHH Regulations and counter arguing / not accepting the applicability of an Acop As per my previous comment - with the exception of lead and asbestos - CoSHH is/are the legal requirements within the UK covering the use/exposure to chemicals while at work and the possible human health effects. I don't see any room for disagreement as such. As Chris Packham says it the format of the hazardous substance and the way the hazardous substance is used which largely determines how far you need to take a CoSHH assessment.
Jonlukejackson  
#32 Posted : 12 January 2015 09:31:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jonlukejackson

Article in the news today regarding two fatalities and five injured in LG factory in South Korea, initial reports point in the direction to a nitrogen leak. http://news.sky.com/stor...at-lgs-tv-screen-factory
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