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xRockape  
#1 Posted : 09 January 2015 11:56:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

I am converting a room in my house (Private Residence) in to a dog grooming room (workplace) from which my wife will work from. To work she will need a shower and bath and a grooming table with electrical point(s). The room is approx. 4mtrs in length and 3 metres wide and there are two electrical points (double sockets) on both side walls. My intention was to remove the electrical points on the wall where the shower is going and the water will be drained though the wall to a drain that is already in place. But I have had an electrician round and he is not sure whether that will meet the regs and is looking it. So my question to the electrical wizards on here, if there is a problem what is it? And how do I get round it? Are there special water safe sockets that can be purchased? Etc. Obviously I don’t want to breach any of the regs.
ptaylor14  
#2 Posted : 09 January 2015 12:20:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

xRockape wrote:
I am converting a room in my house (Private Residence) in to a dog grooming room (workplace) from which my wife will work from. To work she will need a shower and bath and a grooming table with electrical point(s). The room is approx. 4mtrs in length and 3 metres wide and there are two electrical points (double sockets) on both side walls. My intention was to remove the electrical points on the wall where the shower is going and the water will be drained though the wall to a drain that is already in place. But I have had an electrician round and he is not sure whether that will meet the regs and is looking it. So my question to the electrical wizards on here, if there is a problem what is it? And how do I get round it? Are there special water safe sockets that can be purchased? Etc. Obviously I don’t want to breach any of the regs.
Or pay for advice
walker  
#3 Posted : 09 January 2015 12:27:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Ptaylor, The whole point of this forum is we share expertise .... FOC If you don't approve of that concept its best for us all if you just go away
stonecold  
#4 Posted : 09 January 2015 12:29:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

walker wrote:
Ptaylor, The whole point of this forum is we share expertise .... FOC If you don't approve of that concept its best for us all if you just go away
Agreed...never understand why some people feel the need to be UNHELPFUL...if you have nothing positive to offer dont comment. Simple really
peterL  
#5 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:21:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Hi, Found on the web; BS7671:2008 is quite specific in that 13amp sockets must be at least a minimum of 3m from the edge of the shower enclosure and where they are fitted they must be RCD protected. Hope this helps Pete,
Xavier123  
#6 Posted : 09 January 2015 14:31:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

There's the standard and then there is the legal requirement for risk assessment. Probably need to look at both. Dogs. Wet dogs in particular have a habit of trying to stop being so wet through certain shaking motions... ;) You need to consider where water is foreseeably going to end up and how it is going to get there - spray, mist, jetting etc. This should then inform you as to the level of water ingress protection you might need. You can place normal sockets at suitable distance to meet the standard or can take a view that they're going to wet, along with the actual equipment you intend to use, and ensure it meets certain ingress protection (IP) standards. I'm not expert on this but any means but you'll need to look at the IP rating for the socket. Generally an IP rating of 44 is where you'd want to start if splashing was likely (first bit is water, second is physical objects - fingers...dust etc. - as I recall - someone will surely give a more informed response at some point!). A normal standard domestic socket is IP 20.
Xavier123  
#7 Posted : 09 January 2015 16:00:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Whoops. Check back and notice a school boy error - normal socket is IP 22. Fingers can't get in there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
chris42  
#8 Posted : 09 January 2015 16:20:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Could you partition the room, one half wet room one half dry? Chris
paul.skyrme  
#9 Posted : 09 January 2015 18:07:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

The room must be updated to comply with the current requirements of BS7671 Section 701. If the spark is not sure, then get a proper spark. Is the so called "spark" actually a fully qualified and competent electrician? Remember that someone "registered" as a "Domestic Installer" under various schemes does not actually have to be a qualified and competent electrician. Also, if the company he works for is large, then they could operate a QS scheme, legitimately, however, that means that the person actually attending site to do the work, and possibly the assessment is not actually required to be a qualified electrician either. IF you PM me your location as accurately as you are willing then I can contact one of the country wide network of competent and qualified electricians that I know, and see if they are interested in helping you. Please remember that both workplace and residential requirements will apply if this conversion is for a "working at home" type business, formally that is. Mind, only if this is formalised, which it seems. For those doing office sort of stuff with a company laptop, then workplace requirements, could possibly be ignored under BS7671. However, there could be other legislation as you are all hopefully aware that could apply.
bob youel  
#10 Posted : 10 January 2015 08:34:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

AS noted ""The whole point of this forum is we share expertise .... FOC""" and I could not agree more so my advice, noting what I read vis xrockape, is to get in a competent electrician to advise noting that I have not seen the actual place for myself
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 10 January 2015 12:33:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

There must be a standard for dog grooming rooms? There are lots of them about, must be a good business. Why not just start again and get the room up to that standard? If you can find the standard that is.
paul.skyrme  
#12 Posted : 10 January 2015 14:23:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Xavier123 wrote:
There's the standard and then there is the legal requirement for risk assessment. Probably need to look at both. Dogs. Wet dogs in particular have a habit of trying to stop being so wet through certain shaking motions... ;) You need to consider where water is foreseeably going to end up and how it is going to get there - spray, mist, jetting etc. This should then inform you as to the level of water ingress protection you might need. You can place normal sockets at suitable distance to meet the standard or can take a view that they're going to wet, along with the actual equipment you intend to use, and ensure it meets certain ingress protection (IP) standards. I'm not expert on this but any means but you'll need to look at the IP rating for the socket. Generally an IP rating of 44 is where you'd want to start if splashing was likely (first bit is water, second is physical objects - fingers...dust etc. - as I recall - someone will surely give a more informed response at some point!). A normal standard domestic socket is IP 20.
If you are going to comply with BS7671, which if you do you will almost certainly comply with EAWR & Building Regulations (Part P), then you cannot just put sockets where you like, they have to comply with section 701 "Locations containing a bath or shower". So you are wrong. As far as IP ratings go, you are also wrong. IP ratings are defined in BS EN 60529:1992, as amended. The code begins IP and can have up to 4 characters. In an application like this, it is the first two characters we are interested in, primarily. The first is a number from 1 to 6. This indicates the protection given against the ingress of SOLID particles, NOT liquids. The second is a number from 1 to 9. This indicates the protection given against the ingress of LIQUIDS, NOT solids. Either or both of the first digits can be replaced with an X, depending on the specification. Please if you are going to give advice, on such things try to get it right. Reversing the meaning of the code could have quite serious implications if your advice was taken literally. I also do not believe that the Wikipedia article is correctly interpreted in your post. As it merely states that IF a socket was rated at IP22 etc. Not that BS 1363 socket outlets ARE rated at IP 22, again, please be careful making such statements as factual. A typical UK BS1363 socket outlet would be rated at IP2XD, it is the manufacturer that rates their product via their product testing and validation process. My statement above is based on the technical information provided by MK Electric, link here: http://www.mkelectric.co...LUS%20Tech%20355-389.pdf Your bit about risk assessment however, is IMHO spot on!
johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 11 January 2015 09:29:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

xRockape  
#14 Posted : 12 January 2015 08:29:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Thanks, everyone for your advice. The sparks is fully qualified and Part P. But newly qualified so wanted to check a couple of details before committing to do the work. He has the answer and I am happy to move forward. And for the only negative comment received, I am paying for the advice that I am getting. But wanted a second opinion from those on this site. Thanks again.
Xavier123  
#15 Posted : 12 January 2015 10:29:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Thank you Paul. I think the issue on this site is often the tone of entries rather than necessarily the intent. A hard thing to get right in text....but I was fairly clear about my limitations on this issue (and specifically invited correction) and so to treat my entry like an instruction from a competent electrician is a bit much in my opinion. Nonetheless, you are absolutely right to correct any information I've put on thread where it is wrong or misinterpreted. It does remind me of the things I've clearly forgotten over the years through not having to deal with those issues! I would've sworn it was liquids as the first number.... ;)
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