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Nisar19240  
#1 Posted : 12 January 2015 15:07:16(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nisar19240

Hi A service user in care home had a fall and a bump appeared on their shoulder (which was not painful or at least they didnt complain of it) but was taken to the hospital after 5 days when the doctor checked and recommended it to be x-rayed (which turned out to be dislocated shoulder). So my question is that if it is reportable to HSE because they were taken to the hospital? Note: the accident happended on new years eve and no doctor's surgery was open. The ambulance was not called or service user was not taken to the hospital because it didnot appear to be a serious one at the time.
JayPownall  
#2 Posted : 12 January 2015 15:19:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JayPownall

The hospital question wouldn't on its own determine the RIDDOR query. RIDDOR states if it results in...'them being taken from the premises where the accident occurred directly to a hospital for treatment'. By all accounts there was a delay of 5 days and as such is not 'direct to hospital'. It may however be reportable if the accident occurred because of a lack of procedure or mis-management of the care. For example, if the individual was prone to falling but there were no plans in place or risk assessments outlining such risks or the building was not suitable, then it would be reportable. Also, if you are CQC registered it may be worth querying with them what they deem as a serious injury - as this may be CQC notifiable. (This is my understanding of the regs.)
Nisar19240  
#3 Posted : 12 January 2015 15:53:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nisar19240

JayPownall wrote:
The hospital question wouldn't on its own determine the RIDDOR query. RIDDOR states if it results in...'them being taken from the premises where the accident occurred directly to a hospital for treatment'. By all accounts there was a delay of 5 days and as such is not 'direct to hospital'. It may however be reportable if the accident occurred because of a lack of procedure or mis-management of the care. For example, if the individual was prone to falling but there were no plans in place or risk assessments outlining such risks or the building was not suitable, then it would be reportable. Also, if you are CQC registered it may be worth querying with them what they deem as a serious injury - as this may be CQC notifiable. (This is my understanding of the regs.)
Thank You for replying to my post. In this case the service user decided to standup and lost balance. And yes i do understand any failings in the management etc need to be considered. The confusion was mainly around the term "direct to hospital" which i think is clearer now. Thankyou
Gav81  
#4 Posted : 13 January 2015 10:15:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gav81

Hi Nisar Found this on the HSE website on the FAQ's section, this is probably the one example that is closest to your issue. Q. A person slipped over in the shop, but said they were unhurt. Much later they told us they had gone to their GP the next day, who then referred them to hospital. Is this reportable? A.No. The injured person must be taken from where the accident happened, by whatever means, to a hospital for treatment. A GP practice or a drop-in clinic is not a hospital, so there is no duty to report. Link as follows: http://www.hse.gov.uk/ri...reportable-incidents.htm And in my opinion it doesn't become reportable if the incident occurred because of lack of procedures etc. It is only reportable to the HSE under RIDDOR if the reportable criteria is met. There is no mention in the regulations or guidance stating that incidents are to be reported if there is a lack of procedures etc
JayPownall  
#5 Posted : 13 January 2015 10:50:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JayPownall

Gav81 wrote:
Hi Nisar Found this on the HSE website on the FAQ's section, this is probably the one example that is closest to your issue. Q. A person slipped over in the shop, but said they were unhurt. Much later they told us they had gone to their GP the next day, who then referred them to hospital. Is this reportable? A.No. The injured person must be taken from where the accident happened, by whatever means, to a hospital for treatment. A GP practice or a drop-in clinic is not a hospital, so there is no duty to report. Link as follows: http://www.hse.gov.uk/ri...reportable-incidents.htm And in my opinion it doesn't become reportable if the incident occurred because of lack of procedures etc. It is only reportable to the HSE under RIDDOR if the reportable criteria is met. There is no mention in the regulations or guidance stating that incidents are to be reported if there is a lack of procedures etc
Under the RIDDOR guidance for Health and Social Care, there are a number of good examples involving service user falls. For example, a service user falls in the lounge, has a history of falls but reasonably practicable measures to reduce the risks have not been put in place. - This would therefore be reportable under RIDDOR as there has been a failure in control measures and procedures. If however they were not identified as 'at risk' for example and its a genuine slip for want of a better phrase, then no it wouldn't be reportable.
jwk  
#6 Posted : 14 January 2015 09:45:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Gav, the phrase to conside is 'arising out of work'. If you ask yourself what the work of a care provider is the need to report for a failure of care procedures becomes clear. I was in H&S in residential care for 17 years; it's all down to the care plan (if there is one!) and whether the needs of that person are being met. Of course, the other factors would be a fault in the premises such as a torn carpet, or poor procedures around activities such as floor mopping. The case describes (somebody decides to stand up and then falls over) would probably not be reportable as even if the person was known to be vulnerable to falls there is nothing the care provider could do to stop somebody suddenly deciding to stand. Well, nothing legal or moral anyway. I would not have reported this incident in the absence of a clear link to work. Of course, from April it would be reported to CQC, but the details of how this will work are still unknown, John
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