Rank: Forum user 
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Its not often I post new topics with regards to recent events at work affecting my state of mind but I would like to share this particular incident and invite fellow browsers to comment.
I am a health and safety advisor to a small family run roofing contractor and we have been engaged as principal contractor to relatively small roofing project on a Primary School which equates around 300 square meters. As part of my fire risk assessment I have detailed our safe working procedures with regards to filling in and signing off Hot Work Permits and who is responsible for the aforementioned. The schools responsible person for fire safety is the head teacher who has asked for our documented safe working procedures with regards to fire safety i.e. a fire risk assessment to be rigorously implemented. Within my FRA I have clearly stated the need for HPTW to be filled and signed off daily. During a recent communicate with the contract administrator overseeing the works he informed me of a complaint he had received from the head teacher demanding an explanation. The Complaint reads 'Site staff are being "pestered" regarding hot works permits'. I have been left totally bewildered in having to explain the reason why school management are being pestered when implementing standard protocol prior to any works commencing for who you would think the schools responsible person would champion. Needless to say I have 'replied' to this complaint with a rather beleaguered response and I am still left still scratching my head!!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Are U saying that the school [the client?] is responsible for managing the PTW?. if so I would say that it is your site manager that should be responsible for PTW's as all other things on their site and not the school as all the schools RP should need to do is to ensure on an occasional basis that the PTW's are being properly managed by their subbies
It also sounds like working procedures were not fully discussed at the contract negotiation stage and what may also be happening is that the on-site roofers etc. are making it known [one way or anotheras is common practice to the school that things would be speed'ed up if they did not use the PTW's and schools always like jobs to be done fast so listen to what they want to hear
I personally looked after >120 schools for >17 years so know how things are done so my advice is to make your site manager does their job properly and on new contracts the PTW procedures especially are fully discussed etc. at tender stage
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Rank: Forum user
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Hello Bob,
I appreciate what you are trying to say an I am not here to teach you how to suck eggs, but the point I am trying to make is; in order for a Permit To Work to be suitable and sufficient requires that full and proper consideration is given to the hazards and risks of the task in question i.e. the application of waterproofing membranes via a propane gas torch. Furthermore in order for PTW to be received and understood requires commitment from all parties concerned.
So in-affect the site manager overseeing the works WAS doing his job and the responsible person for the school i.e. the head teacher needs to review their policies and procedures when engaging contractors.
I am sure should the unthinkable happen
( and it numerously has) the investigating team would ask was their a PTW in operation and was it adequately, displayed, communicated to all personnel engaged in the contract regardless of their appointment.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As Bob says Damian, the evidence points to the contracts and procedures etc., not being properly discussed and understood at the tender stage. If your procedures say, and for example because I am not saying they should or do or do not etc., 'the head teacher must personally sign every HWP' and the school agreed to that then all you have to do is point that out. However, if you did not write that and/or communicate it then the head teacher is right to raise the concern.
In industry where sites have several on duty engineers normally they issue the PTW's but many schools do not normally have that luxury and so it's generally contracted out with the work to be done. The school RP would then ensure your PTW procedures are robust and thorough and cover all the necessary hazards and risks and implement suitable controls and then it would be quite reasonable for your site manager to issue and control the PTW's. The school would of course have to ensure your site manager has all the information they need, from the schools side of things, in order to be able to do their job properly.
Where of course you work was going to impact directly on some of the school processes, at a particular time, then of course there would have to be some liaison and discussion to properly control the risks.
The key requirement is for the person controlling the work to be competent and thus ensure the work is carried out safely. As you are working on the roof, and are competent in the work being carried out, that would appear to be more aligned with your site manager.
Regards
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