As a company that manages fit-out / refurb projects, small as well as large, does section 3.2 of the client duties now mean that when our small work dept. is requested to carry out minor works....for example Change some carpet, decorate a few walls, remove and then replace some tired tiling..... we will have to tell the Client that they must appoint us, in writing, as PC and PD because there will be 3 separate contractors...... a tiler, decorator and carpet fitter... on site, even if total project length is less than a week ????

I've read the previous thread on the new CDM and agree with the view expressed by some that CDM 2007 was ignored a good deal of the time, especially in our industry, but can't see how the revised version will make any difference.

I have posted a question on this forum asking if any one has a breakdown a break down of changes. 65 views and no replies. I think there is confusion about certain aspects of the revision, clearly, looking at another post on this forum linking to the "you cannot be serious" article.

Some great advice above regarding the initial contract wording, however, having read through the draft, it seems that a construction phase plan is required for EVERY construction project. And, although the advice above is correct for the time being, the CDM Co-coordinator will be a thing of the past, and it will be a principal designer to be appointed.

As with CDM 2007, there could still be changes to be made last minute, so lets hope so as the current proposed changes do not make any sense at all, and largely make a particular section of the CDM industry redundant.

For the time being, here is the link to the current draft: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/draft-l153.pdf

Why are you asking this if the project will last less than a week?

Thank you Peter, are we now saying there will be Client, Principal Designer, Principal Contractor for every single construction project, with requirement for PCI, CPP and H&S File?

Fire,

According to the new Regulation 5. If there is more than one contractor, the answer will be yes. Also if the Client does not appoint a Principal Designer or Contractor in writing, the client must fulfill these duties!

Thank you.

There is now an overlap with another thread that is similar to this.

I agree the CDM regs require that (though I would have referred to regulation 15 (5).

However, why do you say that this goes beyond the directive? TMCSD Article 3 (2) requires a construction site safety and health plan and does not limit that requirement to where there is more than one contractor (the requirement for a coordinator in 3(1) is so limited, but 3(2) is not, as I read it). If 3(2) is intended to only apply where there is more than one contractor, it's entirely redundant, since in that case 3(1) applies and that triggers the requirement for the plan in article 5 anyway.

a PS

From Chapter 5 of "Non-binding guide to good practice for understanding and implementing Directive 92/57/EEC"

Copyright European Union - source acknowledged

"Duties where there will be only one contractor...."

"Ensure that a site safety and health plan is drawn up BEFORE work starts on site (Article 3(2)) (Note that there may be national derogations in certain limited
instances.)"

I think that CDM does this via Pre Construction Information.

Article 6(c) requires the Co-ordinator for the Project Execution Stage to "update" the safety and health plan. Very rare for the PCI template to be used by a Principal Contractor is developing its Construction Phase Plan.

I think that's what I said.

If there's only one contractor, you still need a plan, and it still needs to be exactly the same plan as if there was a coordinator, because the specification for the plan in 3(2) is that it is in accordance with 5(b), which is where the content of the plan is defined for the case when there is a coordinator.

"The client or the project supervisor shall ensure that prior to the setting up of a construction site a safety and health plan is drawn up", with no mention that this is only on sites with more than one contractor. If they meant thi stoi apply only to sites with more than one contractor, it would say "for any construction site on which more than one contractor is present", like 3(1) says.

The safety and health plan is to include "setting out the rules applicable to the construction site concerned, taking into account where necessary the industrial activities taking place on the site; this plan must also include specific measures concerning work which falls within one or more of the categories of Annex II".

Which sounds pretty similar to "set out the health and safety arrangements and site rules taking account, where necessary, of the industrial activities taking place on the construction site and, where applicable, must include specific measures concerning work which falls within one or more of the categories set out in Schedule 3."

Article 3 does not say that this plan is only required when there is a coordinator, and it cannot intend that is only when there is a coordinator, because then 3(2) is entirely spurious.

its seems every ones gone home and left me totally confused even super users misquoting or interpreting the law wrongly who do we follow for a guide

Revised CDM is obviously topical - we do maintenance of alarm systems and telecommunications equipment within client premises - typically lots and lots of short visits to different clients premises
Reg 2(1)e appears not to have been changed "installation, commissioning, maintenance ...."
but within the previous acop there was a list of what was not construction work ie -"general maintenance of fixed plant"

My own view is where we are doing more extensive works than maintenance - repairs or involving another contractor then CDM will apply but for routine day to day maintenance it will not - just wondered what others think.

Those involved in specialist maintenance like this security, alarms, telecom, lifts, fire systems,door entry systems, cable TV must be affected.

Any views?

quote=boblewis]I see nothing in the 2015 draft to suggest that parts 2 and 4 as they exist now will not apply to all construction sites ergo CDM will continue to apply as applicable to ALL construction sites. Once notification is necessary then all parts will be applicable. What is worrying me is a tendency is again developing to see if one can avoid all requirements under CDM. Lets face it all work needs to be planned in some way and once you start to stack up operative and contractor company numbers then the plan needs to be more detailed. Even simple service/maintenance visits have a degree of preparation both for work content and H&S etc.

philb - I note the HSE will produce a template for the small scale routine jobs you speak of, (ref: Appendix 3 para 17), It will be interesting to see its content - hopefully not too onerous.

... and the CITB will be providing a smartphone app too (!).

Presumably you don't need a CDM-C to review the construction phase plan any more, because there's an app for that...