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jon joe  
#1 Posted : 22 January 2015 12:49:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jon joe

Hello...Had a conversation with a family friend last night. She told me how her boyfriend worked at a Garage, and he suffers from migraines since a child (although controllable). She told me how her boyfriend was taken ill to hospital last week, and they concluded he had suffered Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Now, when he contacted his employers, they told him it was most likely due to his migraines. The employers seem to not be wanting to acknowledge they are responsible, and the injured party, has stated he wasn't provided with any PPE that may have protected him against the fumes. The doctors have signed him off work sick for 4 weeks, but he is getting paid sick pay, rather than full board. She has asked me for my advise, but as im still an inexperienced Safety Professional, I thought it would be best asking here.
Thank you
peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 22 January 2015 13:09:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Jon

I think my first point of investigation would be any gas appliances at his home, particularly if there are any where he sleeps, or nearby.
jarsmith83  
#3 Posted : 22 January 2015 14:04:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

I think I would be seeking legal advice as the word of the employer "we supplied adequate PPE" is not enough.

Home gas appliances should still be checked and the report handed to the legal company you have instructed if all comes back clear. Obviously, the check on the appliances would be the first port of call.

Its not really a matter for a health and safety professional at this point.

Hope that helps
chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 22 January 2015 23:04:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

He works at a garage. Have you considered inhalation of carbon monoxide from vehicle exhaust. I think that this is probably more likely than non-occupational exposure, based on what I have seen with many small garages where engines are run without any system for removing vehicle exhaust from the general working environment. This can be a particular issue in cold weather, when the doors may be kept shut.

Chris
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 23 January 2015 09:22:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

also talk to the local EHO's about the general issue
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 23 January 2015 09:51:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

chris.packham wrote:
He works at a garage. Have you considered inhalation of carbon monoxide from vehicle exhaust. I think that this is probably more likely than non-occupational exposure, based on what I have seen with many small garages where engines are run without any system for removing vehicle exhaust from the general working environment. This can be a particular issue in cold weather, when the doors may be kept shut.
Chris

Agree chris-PPE is not the way forward, some form of LEV or other solution to take away the CO is
chas  
#7 Posted : 23 January 2015 09:56:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas

If vehicle exhaust is ruled out as a possibility what are they heating the garage with? Are others showing symptoms (eg nausea, tiredness, lethargy, dizzyness etc)
stevedm  
#8 Posted : 23 January 2015 12:34:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I don't think we should be that quick to blame the employer...especially the information we are commenting on is the friend of a friends boyfriend...

You say this guy has had the headaches from a child. There are many triggers for migraines including diet, stress etc.....if it has ben diagnosed then there will be records to support that..

So the route causes of the underlying problems needs to be addressed...

http://www.migrainetrust...-migraine-triggers-10505

Guidance on CO Emissions in the workplace..
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsg187.pdf

This guy should go to his GP and seek further investigations..
Hope this helps...

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 23 January 2015 13:41:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Steve carbon monoxide poisoning is easy to test for, so if the hospital reckon it
is carbon monoxide poising it probably is that. Of course we don't know the full details, in fact the whole story could be made up, but as this an occupational Health and safety forum let's just assume it is the employer's responsibility. If so what controls would we expect the employer to use to control CO- not PPE but some form of LEV. Do they have any sort of LEV system in the garage or do they just open up the doors if it's not too cold. The point about the heating in the gareg is a very valid one as well.
chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 23 January 2015 14:40:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Has the garage had air monitoring done to check that they are compliant with the WEL in EH40? Probably when you ask they won't even understand what you are talking about. At least, that has been my experience with small garages.

Carbon monoxide Long term 35mg/m3, Short term 232 mg/m3 I think it is

Chris
toe  
#11 Posted : 24 January 2015 15:13:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

I must agree that the source of the fumes have to be identified, and exhaust fumes and the heating system would be likely culprits along with welding fumes, charging batteries etc...

I don't think that PPE (RPE) is the answer here, I have never seen mechanics in car workshops wearing air fed RPE. In a lot of car workshops the door is opened lots of time to allow vehicles into and out of the workshop which results in a lot of dilution ventilation, moreso in the summer months.

LEV is the answer here, as identified in previous posts. I would say that to measure WEV in a large workshop could be difficult to achieve, and yes most garages would not understand what these are.

In the first instance I would ask the worker if the garage has an exhaust extraction system fitted and is it used all the time, trust me mechanics can be lazy. Is the garage an HGV garage or a PLG garage, their is a difference of the types of fumes between diesel and petrol.

stevedm  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2015 10:17:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

A Kurdziel wrote:
Steve carbon monoxide poisoning is easy to test for, so if the hospital reckon it
is carbon monoxide poising it probably is that. Of course we don't know the full details, in fact the whole story could be made up, but as this an occupational Health and safety forum let's just assume it is the employer's responsibility. If so what controls would we expect the employer to use to control CO- not PPE but some form of LEV. Do they have any sort of LEV system in the garage or do they just open up the doors if it's not too cold. The point about the heating in the gareg is a very valid one as well.


We have only got anecdotal evidence that then hospital said that and diagnosis can and in most cases IS lead by the patient...been there done that..

The point is before we go bashing the employer (don't get me wrong it isn't the best industry for compliance!) all the causes need to be investigated...I would be more worried about the fact that this guy says he's been having migraines since a child..
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