Rank: Forum user 
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Afternoon folks,
Just a quick one to guage peoples opinions and perhaps see what other organisations do.
We have a manager who has decided that refresher training for FLT drivers is a waste time and money and not a legal requirement so we should not bother providing it any longer, my response was that although it may not be set down in statute law we still have to have a way of proving that operators are safe and competent to operate the trucks.
I've got my own opinion of what we should do but just wanted to check what other professionals thoughts were.
Also I've looked through the PUWER ACOP (L22) and Rider Operated Lift Trucks ACOP (L117) before we get the standard responses from the "read the ACOP brigade".
Regards
Tom
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi Tom
In a way he is correct, however refresher training or an assessment can be undertaken in-house at minimal cost. It is good practice for refresher training to be done when the cert from the training provider has expired (although it doesn't actually expire, I have in the past asked for the wording to be changed to state recommended refresher date). Remember there is no legal for certificates to be given following training, it just means they have no evidence of the training when changing jobs.
There is also no specific period of when refresher training should be undertaken. It may be worth explaining to him that maybe not everybody needs the re-training, only those that are in-frequent users, or those that have been observed with bad habits etc.
Just an idea to try and get him onside.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I'd argue that it is a legal requirement.
Section 13 (3) of the Management Regs say that and H&S training must be refreshed periodically.
As training on work equipment is a requirement of PUWER 9 (1) I'd say that its H&S training.
Andy
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Rank: Forum user
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If his issue is cost, as with many Manager's, It might also be an idea to get someone trained as a trainer in-house. We have done this recently, ensuring all get trained when required and also saved money in the process.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I think its easy to show that refresher training is a legal requirement, Motorhead gives examples in Management Regs and PUWER. Clearly everyone needs to maintain their competence. For me the issue is how often the refresher should be undertaken. I don't agree with the regimented 1 size fits all timescale and course. I would be looking at drivers performance and how often they use the equipment. For example if you have a driver who uses the truck every day with no near misses etc recorded you might think every 5 years is appropriate, for a driver who uses the equipment a few times a year you might want to refresh every couple of years and do they both need the same course?- and please these dates are only examples not the actual periods required. All too often we see refresher training as just a repeat of the original training in a shortened format which can be seen as insulting by some experienced operatives and others may just turn off and ignore as they think they know it all and have nothing to learn.
Hope that makes sense and helps.
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Rank: Forum user
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Gents
When I said in my post in a way he is correct, I should have explained.
There are a number of FLT myths that circulate, that organisations adopt because they don't know any better. One of which being 'you need to have an FLT license and it needs renewal every 3 years'.
Instead, HSE actually calls for regular MONITORING and routine REASSESSMENT of operators to see whether additional training is needed. This might reveal a training requirement, but equally it might not
(L177) states '75 Lift-truck operators, even those who are trained and experienced, need to be
routinely monitored in the workplace and, where necessary, retested or refresher
trained to make sure they continue to operate lift trucks safely.' There is no specific requirement for routine refresher training!
You don't even need a license or a certificate, just training before you drive the FLT and monitoring throughout to ensure you are following the training and driving safely.
However it is good practice for training to be delivered by an industry registered training provider, RTIB or ITSSAR and refresher training received every 3 yrs - Only good practice though
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for responses so far, it seems that people agree with my thoughts on the subject.
As a little more background, we had someone trained up in-house as an instructor approximately 3 years ago and this qualification is coming up to or has just passed the renewal date so this is potentially another cost that the above manager can save.
My own opinion is that although he is technically correct that there is no statutory duty to provide refresher training specifically for lift trucks, as it is the guidance in the ACOP then should the worst happen and someone has an accident and we get HSE investigating and a prosecution then we would have to prove that we had some system of ensuring drivers competence. To my mind the obvious way to do this is to renew the instructors certificate and allocate time for him to assess regular users and re-train any if their standards are low, and also to periodically refresher train occasional drivers? Maybe I'm being to simplistic in my outlook though.
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Rank: Forum user
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I totally agree with you, a pragmatic approach rather than over analysing the requirements.
Like I said before we have an in-house trainer that monitors the guys, gives refresher training to the one's that don't use the FLT as often as others or those that that have been observed going to fast round corners etc
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Rank: Forum user
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Just as a side note ask your insurance provider about how you will stand if there is an incident and you have not had refresher training?
Some insurers may require it as part of their cover??
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Rank: Forum user 
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Or ask those who appear resistant to spending the money on refresher training how they will demonstrate that they ensured that FLT drivers were competent in the event of an accident. I'd feel 'safest' in court showing the RTITB (or similar) certs documenting the retraining rather than trying to tap-dance my way around the houses.
It is not a cost, it is an investment in those FLT drivers' own safety and that of all who might have to share the workplace with them (and the FLTs).
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Rank: Super forum user 
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My reading of Management Regs 13.3 i that training is to be repeated "where appropriate".
Thus the FLT driver who does this work every day and has a good standard of driving/use is an entirely different proposition to the occasional user with bad habits.
The manager may therefore be correct or wrong - It is the employer's decision to make. The decision may of course be challenged in the event of an incident, with the benefit of perfect hindsight.
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Rank: Super forum user
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What's interesting is that people often pass their car driving test in their teens and never have to take a refresher again, ever. Yet the very same person can drive through town etc., and where there are adults and children close by. The very same people can drive at speed on motorways etc., and relatively close to other cars going at speed.
Regards
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