Hi All,

Looking for advice from anyone with experience in this area.

I came across a young chap on site the other day who had decided that to make his life easier he would remove the guard from his grinder and when I pointed out the error of his ways he claimed that all was fine and dandy with the world because he was wearing a pair of cut resistant gloves (Level 5 apparently)

Aside from all the other issues involved in this, once back at based I decided to look in to these gloves and just how much protection they might provide.

Level 5 cut resistance does seem to be the best in the EN388 standard but after reading about how they test the gloves and the difference between the European and US tests I was still completely unsure as to how much real world protection they might give, especially in grinding situation.

I was sceptical to say the least that they would provide much at all.

Can anybody enlighten me ???

Just throw EN388 into Google. There are some good sites that clearly demonstrate how the levels are measured and achieved. None of the tests involve grinders.
What about entrapment if the gloves get caught in the rotating wheel?

When looking at controls- priority should be given to those that collectively protect before individually, gloves are individual measures, and as previously mentioned regarding shattering, gloves won't protect joe bloggs walking along at the wrong time.

I think really the idea shouldnt have been entertained. He tampered with equipment to make his life easier and then tried to justify it with gloves. It shouldn't matter how good the gloves are when the guard in place stops the need for them in the first place and protects more than just him.

Who would he go after when his level 5 gloves didn't cut it (excuse the pun) with the grinder and he had major hand damage?

What guard was removed?

Is this a hand grinder or a bench grinder, as this may be pertinent whether a gloves would be used or not. How can advice be given on this if we are unsure of the type of equipment!

Cutting forces and grinding forces differ quite significantly, I wouldn't want to be wearing them for that job. I would be more worried about entanglement that anything else.

Using a bench grinder - no gloves.
Using a hend held angle grinder - wear gloves.

Have a look at the cover of INDG175

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg175.pdf

quote=Toe]Using a bench grinder - no gloves.
Using a hand held angle grinder - wear gloves.

Oh I see Colossians - yes, sometimes I think the HSE don't really consider their marketing aspects very well. This is not the only occasion - I think HSG129 which is safety in engineering workshops shows a picture of oil being poured into the cutting tool of a lathe - not white coolant... golden neat oil. This doesn't happen - it would be ridiculous. Apart from anything else you'd be spending all day just cleaning components. The cover of the old PUWER showed someone sticking a screwdriver into a machine, the new one shows interlocking gears - yes, I get their point but surely on the cover of an HSE document you would show that the machine was locked out as part of the picture or that the gears were guarded?

First Aid Regulations - first aider is not wearing gloves, DSE Regulations - still featuring a CRT screen (who has one of those these days?). All in all, the HSE photos lack a certain professionalism and attention to the health and safety aspects.

I actually have an official copy of the Vibration Regulations guidance and they are not even AV gloves, just standard riggers!

I personally would not use an angle grinder without gloves. I think these are an exception to the normal rule about rotating machinery.

Most users seem to agree - a google images search for angle grinder shows about 4:1 ratio for wearing gloves against not (if you ignore the scantily-clad young ladies). Most manufacturers say wear gloves - see (eg) http://www.bosch-profess...sional-manual-138588.pdf which instructs wearing of gloves.

I read with interest - your staff are using hand held angle grinders with out wearing gloves, and this was identified in your risk assessment!

I also would never use an angle grinder without proper gloves.

Hi Fiesta
Ansell helped write the EN standard and have a massive amount of information available. I have no affiliation with them but have met an area Rep and found them great.
Hope that helps

Chris, I think you may be saying what I have suspected all along - there is no such thing as anti vibration gloves.

But I do understand that keeping the hands warm by wearing gloves is one control measure that can help.

Frankly I would be cautious about relying merely on suppliers' information. This is perhaps less of an issue with protection against physical hazards, but a serious issue when it comes to protection against chemical hazards. The performance of a glove against a chemical can vary widely and the manufacturer's published performance data may not be appropriate.

For example, when I carried out a study together with a UK university (part funded by the British Occupational Research Foundation) we found that it was the task that was one of the main determinants for the performance under actual conditions of use. Also bear in mind that there is no standard test protocol for degradation, so comparing manufacturers' performance data on this can be difficult.

With permeation the breakthrough time may bear little resemblance to that in the published performance chart. For example in one factory using nitrile gloves to protect against xylene, with a manufacturer's stated permeation breakthrough time of 36 minutes, we found for one task no breakthrough for over 2 hours whereas with another task breakthrough in just 5 minutes. Same chemical, same glove, different tasks.

It isn't as straightforward as many believe. For example in a factory workers were using both acetone and styrene for the same task. For acetone the only satisfactory glove is butyl, for styrene Viton. Neither works for both chemicals! What would you do?

Chris

Apologies - in my posting it should have read "British Occupational Health Research Foundation" (regrettably no longer functioning), the organisation that also sponsored the study "Occupational contact dermatitis and urticaria" in 2010.

Chris

Why is it that every thread gets high jacked on here and goes in the completely wrong direction?

The original question was what protection would a Level 5 cut resistance glove give in grinding situation.

It’s a simple question from a colleague why can’t we just help a friend in need instead of drone on about every other fact or slant everyone else’s comments, most of these threads are utterly useless and don’t help anyone in the search of information.
Gentlemen we are professionals try and keep it professional or don’t say anything.

I agree that all too often a question gets disected, subsequently straying from the original post. That said, this is a 'discussion' forum and the original scenario does lend itself to asking some pertinent questions. For example, why has guard been removed, should gloves be used with rotating mechanical equipment, will cut resistant gloves protect from abrasions? All good questions...personally, I don't think gloves should be used with rotating mechanical equipment, period.

Thomo,

Thanks for your input here.
Your last post is bang on the money in terms of your summation.

I only ever post on here as a last resort. There are way too many posters who's first assumption is that, if you've not mentioned an issue (even a side issue) specifically, you must be unaware of it and hence an imbecile. An oversight on my part was failing to mention it was 5" hand held grinder.

I have read the whole thread but can't recall if an answer to my actually query was ever given.
My assumption at the time was that L5 cut resistant gloves would be virtually no protection in the situation and I think somewhere in amongst this thread that position has been agreed with.

The decision to remove the guard was taken on site to solve a particular issues without my input ( you'll all be please to hear ) . Luckily, my site inspection picked it up on day one and a stop was put to it. A non-conformance was raised with the contractor involved, an acceptable response from them regarding corrective actions has been received, a serious conversation was had with the site manager for "allowing" this to happen and we all move on a little wiser. (and thankfully with all our fingers).

One concern I did have was with regard to the age of the guy in question (19). If someone had asked me to do what he'd been asked to do I would have told them where to get off. I felt that his age together with his lack of risk perception may have led him to agree to do something that older, more experienced operatives wouldn't have.