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Graham  
#1 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:10:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

Hi
I’m being asked about a toaster in a kitchen off an open plan office. The kitchen is about 2M x 4M. There's hot water from a tap and a microwave, dish washer and fridge. It's been refurbished so the power is all newly installed. It currently has a smoke detector that I’ve asked to be changed before a toaster can be provided.
When I mention this to some people here I get a very sour look, some people seem terrified (may be a bit of an exaggeration) of a toaster.
What do others here think?
It would help staff moral if they could have a toaster, and I’m going to provide a fire blanket (and a quick run through on how to use it!).
But is it really that dangerous to provide adult, normal, healthy, sensible (mostly), intelligent people with a toaster?
I'm not best pleased with Health and Safety being used as an excuse for not providing one without good cause.
Cheers
Graham
Andrew W Walker  
#2 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:28:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

Hi Graham.

There has been a blanket ban here for a number of years- after a few visits from the fire service!

I think its ridiculous to ban them like that- manage them instead.

People will burn toast- a heat detector is the sensible thing to do. Tell the staff that if the do keep filling the place with the smell of burnt toast you will take it away.

Personally I wouldn't have a fire blanket.

Hope this helps

Andy
stonecold  
#3 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:29:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

there is nothing wrong with having a toaster. Treat it as any other electrical appliance. Biggest issue is the wrong type of fire detector unit which looks like you are on to already.

let them eat toast.


:)
stonecold  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:31:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

worth noting i have had a toaster in my house for 20 years,and so have most of my freinds and family...no one has died due to toaster use so far as far as i am aware.

Agree not sure why people think a toaster is a mini killing machine.
Andrew W Walker  
#5 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:32:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

stonecold wrote:


let them eat toast.


:)



I wish I'd have thought of that line!!!!!
jodieclark1510  
#6 Posted : 09 February 2015 13:36:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

Let them have a toaster- if they muck about remove it. With regard to the fire blanket- I have found previously if you put something there like this there will always be one person who wants to play the hero. Perhaps have the fire marshals trained on the use of the fire blanket?
Mebo  
#7 Posted : 09 February 2015 14:04:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mebo

Someone burned the toast last week. We have a heat detector in the kitchen but the smoke spread to the landing outside and triggered the smoke detector there. Our company's staff evacuated. The other tenants in the building didn't bother because it was "probably a false alarm". Following the all-clear the smoke continued to spread as there was no easy means to get rid of it (not many windows). The detector in the conference room was triggered, then the smoke spread down the stairs and set off the detector in the entrance lobby.

I left the fire panel in "silence alarm" state waiting for the smoke to disperse, then the landlord came in. He found the silence beep annoying so started randomly pressing buttons on the fire panel. The alarms were set off yet again!
SBH  
#8 Posted : 09 February 2015 14:05:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Tell the staff that they must stop with the toaster whilst in use - simple - plus no need for a blanket.

SBH
walker  
#9 Posted : 09 February 2015 14:08:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

There is nothing dangerous about toasters.
However get ready for lots of expensive lost time for false fire alarm evacuations.
That's the usual reason for bans.
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 09 February 2015 15:00:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Mebo wrote:
Someone burned the toast last week. We have a heat detector in the kitchen but the smoke spread to the landing outside and triggered the smoke detector there. Our company's staff evacuated. The other tenants in the building didn't bother because it was "probably a false alarm". Following the all-clear the smoke continued to spread as there was no easy means to get rid of it (not many windows). The detector in the conference room was triggered, then the smoke spread down the stairs and set off the detector in the entrance lobby.

I left the fire panel in "silence alarm" state waiting for the smoke to disperse, then the landlord came in. He found the silence beep annoying so started randomly pressing buttons on the fire panel. The alarms were set off yet again!


I hope you filmed all of the above for your next H&S lecture ha ha.

Sounds like you need a few smoke stop doors?
firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 09 February 2015 15:03:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

You can change the AFD for rate of rise heat detector, but is that expensive?

Why not change the existing smoke detector for a domestic type with a button to press to stop the alarm?

If a real fire you can have a procedure for someone to operate a break glass point to sound the premises fire alarm.
mssy  
#12 Posted : 09 February 2015 16:53:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

I have effectively banned toasters from open plan snack areas and other areas not deemed to be kitchens (rest rooms, security office etc).

This is entirely a business interruption avoidance initiative and NOT as part of a fire safety (or H&S) strategy. It is vital to get that message across to staff

As has been said by Mebo, even where kitchens have heat detection, well meaning staff who attempt to remove smoke from a kitchen by opening the door, or just general traffic through a kitchen door can lead to the smoke detection being operated in the corridor/area outside.

This risk is acceptable, but toasters else in locations where smoke detectors are installed is not a business interruption risk that is acceptable. This policy has gone down like a lead balloon with night shift workers, but there are plenty of toasters in snack areas away from open plan offices & technical areas.

There is a sound business case for not interrupting production and the toaster policy is one of a range of methods in place to prevent unwanted fire signals.

I do not believe a fire blanket is the appropriate firefighting equipment for a toaster
bob youel  
#13 Posted : 09 February 2015 17:17:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel



Some good advice here

My advice is to give the issue to HR and the production managers; supporting them (HR and managers) with the H&S bit as needed
DP  
#14 Posted : 09 February 2015 17:41:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

Nothing wrong with having toasters but needs some control around use. False alarms etc.

When you site them ask for the budget code for the department manager, so if required you can cross charge the £500,00 call out fees from the brigade for the false alarms. Works wonders.......
A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 10 February 2015 11:16:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

We found that an unsupervised (?) toaster tends to fill up with crumbs etc and it is these which catch fire and set off the alarms.
So like any piece of kit someone must be in charge of it and they must manage it.

I am surprised that the fire brigade come out to after a simple alarm. On our site it requires a human intervention before the brigade come out (eg manual activation of a fire alarm)
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