Rank: Forum user 
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Anybody any thoughts on this?
We have a number of pieces of equipment that are not hard wired but are fitted with a 3 phase plug.
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Anything with a plug needs testing, but I'm struggling to confirm this fact for 3 phase equipment
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Rank: Forum user
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OK, let's make a start then.
Low voltage single phase and 3-phase and 3-phase and neutral equipment are tested to ensure safety. Even extra-low-voltage the same.
First get a copy of the Code of practice for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment 4th edition by the IET. That will save you and us a whole lot of time.
All testing should be risk based and the book will help you with that.
In there it will give guides to when, and how often, the tests are recommended to be carried out. It will also help you define what type of equipment you are looking at (portable, built-in )the class (double insulated class 2)
I think you'll find that in some cases even things that are wired into outlets are tested ;-)
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Send me a contact email addy over and I'll pop something in the post for you ctd167
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Sorry for the multi posts but why call it P.A.T. Testing?
Portable appliance testing testing?
In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment. They are not necessarily portable! :-)
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Simply make up an adaptor with a 3-pin plug at one end and a 3-phase socket at the other. Connect the live from the plug to all 3 phase contacts in the plug. Wire earth and neutral point-to-point. You can now carry out earth, insulation and flash tests. Some PAT testers can also power up a single-phase appliance and measure earth leakage. You can't do that with the adaptor but it is not an essential test.
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Rank: Forum user
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Flashman wrote:Sorry for the multi posts but why call it P.A.T. Testing?
Portable appliance testing testing?
In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment. They are not necessarily portable! :-) This
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Do NOT, under any circumstances carry out a flash test. Medo is wrong.
The 'flash test' is used under controlled conditions when repairs have been made to the insulation of gear. It is NOT recommended.
Do not even think of carrying out any electrical testing unless trained to do so.
Mebo is talking pure rubbish and unless you know exactly what you are doing put your hands in your pockets and walk away. Phone someone who knows what they are talking about. I'll send you mine if you like.
Only listen to people who have passed the City and Guild 2377 exam and NOT the half-day claptrap.
Medo, talking like that to someone who has no idea of what they are doing will kill them!
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Rank: Forum user
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By the way, one of the reasons I came down on is this:
Mebo states 'A 3-pin plug at one end and a 3-phase socket at the other...
So just where on a 3-pin x 3-phase plug or socket outlet does the neutral and the cpc get connected? Let me think about this...
L1 + L2 + L3 + Neutral + CPC = 5
So Mebo means a 5-pin Triple pole + N + cpc (earth) plug at one end and a 5-pin TP+N with cpc socket outlet at the other.
It shows how little knowledge some people have and then they pass this off as advice to others with even less.
In the valley of the blind the man with one eye is king?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Flashman
We call it PAT Testing because although we all know we are using the word testing twice, it is clearly understood by all and sundry.
In the same was as we Hoover the house with the Vax - we don't Hoover because it's a brand name, we vacuum but we all know what we are talking about.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Flashman wrote:
First get a copy of the Code of practice for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment 4th edition by the IET. That will save you and us a whole lot of time.
This document is essential and I continue to be surprised about how few people are aware of it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mebo wrote:Simply make up an adaptor with a 3-pin plug at one end and a 3-phase socket at the other. Connect the live from the plug to all 3 phase contacts in the plug. Wire earth and neutral point-to-point. You can now carry out earth, insulation and flash tests. Some PAT testers can also power up a single-phase appliance and measure earth leakage. You can't do that with the adaptor but it is not an essential test. As another poster has forcefully remarked, this is not an acceptable method.
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Hilary, that was intended to be a little joke hence the :-) at the end of the sentence.
I'd be a little more concerned about the dangerous advice being offered by Mebo if I were you. But thanks for the 'heads up'.
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Flashman wrote:By the way, one of the reasons I came down on is this:
Mebo states 'A 3-pin plug at one end and a 3-phase socket at the other...
So just where on a 3-pin x 3-phase plug or socket outlet does the neutral and the cpc get connected? Let me think about this...
L1 + L2 + L3 + Neutral + CPC = 5
So Mebo means a 5-pin Triple pole + N + cpc (earth) plug at one end and a 5-pin TP+N with cpc socket outlet at the other.
/quote]
No I don't. I mean a BS1363 plug at one end and a 4 or 5 pin three phase socket with CPC and with or without neutral as appropriate at the other. I also stated that earth at one end connects to earth at the other and the same for neutral.
I did not tell the OP to carry out a flash test (read my post). Many PAT test units have this facility to be used when appropriate. For both flash and insulation (single phase) the test box ties L and N together and applies voltage with respect to earth. If the OP "has no idea what they are doing" they should not be even thinking about
PAT testing.
I was safety testing electrical items before there was a C&G 2377 or even a half day claptrap.
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I have read your post. You sir, are a danger.
Quote from you: You can now carry out earth, insulation and flash tests.'
A flash test should NOT be used.
If you want to talk about a 3-pin 13A BS 1363 household type plug top then say so!
If you want to talk about a 5-pin triple pole/neutral/cpc socket outlet then say so!
I take it that you are actually qualified to give electrical advice?
You are giving advice on test procedures to someone who understands less than you.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mebo wrote:
I was safety testing electrical items before there was a C&G 2377 or even a half day claptrap.
Me too, but when I give advice on this forum I am mindful of the audience I address.
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There is nothing wrong with making suitable adapted leads for testing Mebo.
There is no actual need to use a P.A.T. instrument (but they are convenient) and with the 'touch-current' test or leakage test they are useful.
But you need to ne a little more precise in how you describe things. To advice someone in the way you did was silly.
Correct training is vital. It is the understanding of the reasons for testing and the protocols for testing that are essential.
Walker gives good advice.
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I test 200V 400hz 3 phase four-wire aircraft power supply cables at work. These cables only have three phases and a neutral line (no earth protection within the cables themselves although they obviously eventually earth through the neutral line at some point) These cables an their connectors are pretty chunky so it is impracticable to stick them onto a pat tester all I do is give them a general visual inspection a continuity check and an insulation test. Oh ps I also do the same with the 415V 63A 5 wire cables that we have here at work. I maybe wrong but somewhere in the back of my mind tells me that as long as you do an earth bond test and an insulation test on any equipment that should cover you. Tests such as touch leakage, polarity and flash tests although will give you extra piece of mind are optional
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Well I have been accused of "talking pure rubbish", having "little knowledge", giving "dangerous advice" and I am "a danger". Clearly my comments should be ignored and people should stick to buying accessories from reputable manufacturers, like this one: http://www.tester.co.uk/...mL99iM8MMCFYSWtAodi30ApwStrangely, that seems to be exactly what I described. I will admit that I do not know ctd167, which clearly the other posters in this thread do. I would not have posted as I did had I known that he/she had no knowledge of electricity whatsover. The factory where I worked has been closed now but the PAT testing there was done by myself and my engineers. When the Electricity at work regulations came out there were no C&G courses, we had to work out what to do ourselves. I am a bit surprised that PAT testing is now considered a suitable activity for non-engineers.
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Rank: New forum user
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Judging by posts #1 and #3 I would have thought that it was clear that the poster had very little idea about electric and no idea at all about testing electrical appliances.
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Mebo wrote:No I don't. I mean a BS1363 plug at one end and a 4 or 5 pin three phase socket with CPC and with or without neutral as appropriate at the other. I also stated that earth at one end connects to earth at the other and the same for neutral. Sorry, this is not the best way to make up such an adaptor, as it won't protect against accidental, non-testing usage. The best way: BS1363 plug on one end of the 3-core flex. BS EN 60309 (formerly BS 4343) 3P+N+E socket on the other. Connect the E directly from plug to socket. Connect the N directly from plug to socket. Then, internally in the 60309 socket, link the N and all 3 P (phase/line/live) pins together. No connection should be made from the L pin of the BS 1363 plug. If the required 60309 socket is 3P + E, N from the 1363 plug should connect to one of the phase pins, then link to the other 2 as above. This will enable the earth bond and insulation resistance tests to be carried out by the PAT machine in the usual way, but reduces the danger if someone tries to use the adaptor to power the 3ph appliance from a 1ph supply. Quote:I did not tell the OP to carry out a flash test (read my post). You so did! It's right there in post #7
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Grizzly wrote:
You so did! It's right there in post #7
Although I think it's time to end this discussion, with everyone's points fairly made, I'm going to be a little pedantic. I used the word "can" not "should" or "must". My meaning in full, sorry if not clear, was "if your PAT tester offers a flash test option and it is appropriate in your judgment to use it, then it is possible to do so".
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Sooooooooooooo...............after the sh*t storm of comments my question raised, I'm still non the wiser :-)
Do you have to PAT test a piece of 3ph equipment with a 'commando' type plug on it or not?
I ask this question safe in the knowledge that even the so called experts who offer PAT testing services seem unable to answer.
I've sent email requests to 3 companies in the last week asking this question and offering them the work but have yet to receive a single response.
Even the company we have used for the last 2 annual visits hasn't replied.
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Rank: Super forum user
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ctd167, you have to maintain electrical equipment so as to prevent danger (regulation 4 of the Electricity at Work Regs).
This is basically why PAT testing is done.
Three phase equipment is not immune from becoming dangerous. In a previous life I worked in a place that had a large welding shop. In it were several three phase welding machines, whose operating environment included metal fume. Did they need testing? Definitely.
Unfortunately many PAT testing outfits cater for the mass market of nice office machinery. There are people out there who can do three phase.
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ctd167 wrote:Do you have to PAT test a piece of 3ph equipment with a 'commando' type plug on it or not?
Using correctly made adaptors, it can be done. If your risk assessment indicates that it is necessary, then it should be done. It should only be done by people who are competent to carry out such tests, and interpret the results of said tests. I think that covers it!
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All electrical equipment should be tested, regardless of final power connection
Hardwired or plug and socket arrangement makes no difference.
Think about hand driers, excluded from fixed wiring testing and the old pat testing regime as it didnt have a plug.
Now it will be inspected and tested
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I can put you in touch with someone who can do the testing, in a safe and competent manner and is competent to do so.
However, the costs will not be the 50p per item that seems common for "normal" PAT.
Which is totally unrealistic really, but, is still done.
There are a few dodgy comments, but, in general the responses are mostly on the mark.
For goodness sakes, I'll do it if you want, but, it will cost you consultancy kind of rates.
The choice is yours.
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