Rank: Forum user
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Having just been quoted for an updated Water Risk Assessment - I am wondering how easy it would be to get trained to conduct a Water Risk Assessemnt to meet the L8 requirements myself ( as this would seem to be considerably cheaper).
Has anyone else completed a training course for WRA ?
Does anyone have any recommendations for training providers ?
I am situated in a medium sized factory with around 150 staff split between shop floor and offices, we have a canteen, usual toilets etc, no sprinkler system and no cooling towers.
All information gratefully received.
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Rank: Super forum user
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One of my team at my former place did the C&G Legionella course. Not sure who he did it with, but it was invaluable. Cost less the £500 as I recall. He was able to confidently assess complex listed premises dating back to the 15th Century (in one case) housing very vulnerable people overnight. He did end up looking at a lot of taps, but it was worth it from everybody's perspective,
John
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks John, will look into that one, at that price I am saving over a grand.
M.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I've mixed feelings about this. I think more people having better understanding of legionella is great - hell, its your site, you'll know it better than someone coming in from outside. But, legionella risk assessments are 90% doing the basics and then 10% really really really knowing what you are doing.
A City & Guilds course isn't a set syllabus. They will differ from each other based on the provider.
And whilst sometimes I talk up how easy legionella control can be, doing a suitable and sufficient risk assessment is the number one starting point to that...and knowing what you don't know isn't going to be fully covered on one C&G course.
Competence in this field for complex risk assessment stems from knowledge of water chemistry, microbiology, water systems/engineering and health & safety. Its quite a skill set.
There are now accredited NVQ (I think its QCF now) style courses out there for legionella risk assessment i.e. someone watches you do an assessment and gives you a pass. But they are to a national set of competence based standards. I would suggest that these are the gold standard for an industry where there have historically been no specific qualifications as such.
I only know of one current provider and, for forum/commercial reasons, I won't name them.
Failing that, the Water Management Society accredit the content of some courses in this field - and that would be the next sort of course I looked to go on.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Xavier,
I agree to an extent. My colleague had already read (and understood) L8 and was already involved in managing water hygiene based on assessments by an external contractor, so he wasn't starting from zero, but I would think that would apply to a lot of safety people.
Legionella control can (in most premises) be achieved by meticulously following a script, and the course he went on (it was in Leeds) spent three days carefully outlining the process to follow in order to get to the right result. It gave him effective tools, and at the end of it he was happy that this existing level of knowledge and skill had been boosted by several levels.
Did it make him a competent legionella assessor? Well, he carried out a programme of assessments in our complex, ancient buildings and came up with lots of significant findings supported by evidence, so I guess it probably did. It also equipped him to give effective advice when we were faced with a bit of a crisis over a legionella count in one of our hospices in 2013. It was one he hadn't got to on his programme.
So in my view a course can go a long way towards conferring competency, given certain provisos,
John
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Rank: Super forum user
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I guess I would consider the following which may give you an indication if in house train would be OK or the need for the experts is required.
1. Are there vulnerable people in the premises;
2. Do you have cold water storage;
3. Do you have hot water storage;
4. Do you have long lengths of hot water pipework and are both the hot and cold water pipes lagged/insulated;
5. Do you have showers;
6. Do you have a Spa or Jacuzzi type bathes etc...
The above list (not exhaustive) are some of the things that increase the risk of legionella bacteria.
Hope this helps.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I guess the thing is there will always be someone MORE competent than you. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're not competent enough to do the task in front of you. ;)
I was quite careful not to lay possible offence at the door of your colleague since I would have no idea of their background! Any increase in knowledge should lead to more issues being identified if they exist.
The big one for me is - are you able to accurately map out or otherwise fully understand/assess an existing schematic for the premises? Frankly, if you can look at the complex HWS schematic in the back of HSG274 Part 2 and have a really good understanding of possible short circuits, tertiary circuits etc. why hot water at a tap within 30 seconds is NOT always the appropriate measure then you're in a good place for doing more complex assessments.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks all, great to get some other inputs in subjects like this.
Mark.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Map out an accurate schematic for the premises? Not easily in a building built in the 14th century, first plumbed probably in the 17th, allowed to go derelict for 100 years and then restored by voluntary labour in the 1970s. A reasonably good working schematic, yes, but we would have been so happy to achieve accuracy!
John
PS They weren't all like that, at least one was built at the end of the 20th Century, but it does give you an idea of the task we had.
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Rank: Forum user
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Before buying training I'd sugest that you check with your insurers. They may require that your legionella risk assessor be a member of the legionella control asociation or MWMSoc for example.
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