Rank: Forum user 
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Hello all,
Can any colleagues on here tell me if there is a difference in the licence/competency requirements needed to operate this type of plant in the UK and in Italy?
In simple terms can a UK licence holder operate this type of plant in Italy?
Thanks in advance,
DHM
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Rank: Super forum user 
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There is no such thing as a licence (in law) to drive a dumper or excavator on site in the UK however the CITB has a competency card scheme. All major contractors have agreed to use the CITB scheme and in my experience only cowboys and domestic builders do not use it. Unless the CITB recognise an Italian scheme you will not be allowed to operate plant in the UK on most sites.
However the law refers to competency.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi, I recently had an issue with a site worker with Australian qualifications.
The difficulty was trying to find out exactly what his qualification was equivalent to in the UK.
This might be even more difficult with your language difference.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks, just to be clear, the plant is going to be operated in Italy.
The driver is from the UK and has been trained in the UK.
Will his UK training cover him if he went to Italy to operate this type of plant?
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Rank: Forum user
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Any Italian experts out there this afternoon?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I would check out the italian version of the CDM regulations or how they have implemented the (TMCS) Directive 92/57/EEC.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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We have been working in Italy and have found some variations in each region but some other stuff quite standard. I have had two different people who have acted as their equivalent of the CDM-C who have asked for qualifications relating to the operation of equipment and other trade related qualifications. To prove that our operatives had some competence I used evidence such as IPAF, CSCS, PASMA, SMSTS, First Aid, etc. I know these are mainly UK qualifications, but after discussions with the Italians, it proved that the operatives had some training. I was even asked for the course content of the SMSTS to show that the site manager had covered some aspects of H & S. My opinion of the Italian safety culture is that they are very good at paperwork but are about 10 years behind on physical safety aspects. I believe your CPCS would be acceptable.
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Rank: Forum user
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Alfasev, your comment regarding your experience that all construction contractors that do not have CPCS are Cowboys or domestic I personally find insulting. You should not tarnish everyone with the same brush. I have come across many CPCS qualified operators that are clearly not competent even though they have a CPCS card.
For clarification.purposes, training and a test for one category of CPCS (eg a dumper) can cost in the region of £1,000. The same training and test delivered by the same company and offered as an in house certificate will cost around £250. There is no legal requirement for CPCS, but there is a requirement for training. It is up to the employer to identify the level of training required.
National contractors do not set the industry regulations, however they have their own site rules. The CITB qualifications are not mandatory for the industry, just one option.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chrisp! We need a 'like' button on here. Passion, accuracy, honesty! Spot on. Thank you...
Steve.
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Rank: Forum user
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In reply to Chrisp and DHM I only stated CPCS as an assumption but stand by having evidence of training whoever the provider as long as it is relevant and sufficient.
Something else I didn't say is that I wouldn't worry about trying to find the Italian equivalent of the CDM regs. I made sure we complied with our company procedures and the requirements of the Italian version of the CDM-C. They gave me a list of items that was needed and I provided it. Their concern is that should there be a visit from the local council, they can prove compliance. Another document they were very hot on was the European A1 model which has to be completed by EU nationals working abroad. This relates to paying tax in the home country. Having had projects in France, Germany and Italy the Italians were the only ones to ask for it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chrisp1978, I never said “all construction contractors that do not have CPCS are Cowboys or domestic”. What I said was “in my experience only cowboys and domestic builders do not use it”. I also never said anything about those without it not being competent.
You comment about the cost goes to show my point. To spend a £1,000 on training is not exorbitantly expensive for qualifications that will give a good return. What do you get for £250, it’s too cheap!
National contractors through UKCG, CITB and CONIAC do significantly influence the HSE and regulations. I agree the CITB qualifications are not mandatory but in an industry as varied and cutthroat as construction I do not trust in-house certificates. I also accept at the SME end of the market for contractors not subcontracted to the major contractors the CITB scheme may not work and that there are large contractors who simply do not check competence of subcontractors.
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Rank: Forum user
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Alfasev,
You are clearly missing the point here, as I said it is the same trainer delivering the same training to the same standards, the only difference is the card. Do you think a CPCS centre with an assessor would let a untrained person pass because it is not CPCS test? These training establishments have a reputation to preserve. You say your experience, well maybe youjust don't have that much experience when it comes to construction plant? And you say £1,000 is not much? I think you should take a look at CPCS closer and maybe from a different perspective. For example, if you want to have a card with excavator tracked below 10t, that could be up to a £1,000. Then it's the same for an excavator tracked over 10t, another possible £1,000. Then, maybe you want excavator wheeled, again could be another £1,000. It goes on and on. I use cost as an example, and it's what every employer looks at, regardless of what we H&S people like to think. National contractors have rules, it's not law. Otherwise the PUWER regulations would state CPCS. And by the way, I have some 50 operatives CPCS trained, I find the money, but is it value? I'll leave that one for you, although you clearly may have a little too much!!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Chrisp1978, I have not missed the point and I have not questioned your experience, so why have you questioned mine? With 29 years of experience I have seen a lot and I am allowed to have a different opinion to you. I am fully aware of the cumulative costs can creep up and the legislation.
Like it or not the major contractors have been instrumental in improving construction health and safety, and have dragged a lot of subcontractors with them. It is also a fact that the majority of accident do not now happen on large sites.
With 50 operatives with CPCS your company is a sizable outfit and what you fail to mention is that it is not a £1000 a year or a £1000 to renew them. You also know as well I do, there are outfits in South Wales that will cut corners.
Who is in a position to keep track of every training provider or assess the one you may use? I cannot do that hence the reliance on the CITB/NPORS. These schemes are not perfect but are fit for purpose. So Chrisp1978, how would you check/assess competence when operatives turn up on site?
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Rank: New forum user
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We seem to have moved away from the original question (although this is an interesting discussion all the same).
I have no idea about Uk/Italy equivalency of qualifications. One could argue whichever UK card is held is some proof of competency. Every main contractor has their own rules anyway, no matter where they are based. I would also suggest CITB backed schemes are more likely to be recognised abroad though.
On a side note, with regards to CPCS test costs - at least 70% of these costs would be reclaimable through CITB Grants.
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