Why wouldn't it be compliant to keep a legally available industrial fuel gas in the workplace? Where do people get these ideas from?? Propane will fall under the Dangerous Substances and Explosives Atmospheres Regulations (DSEAR). It is flammable/highly flammable. DSEAR requires you to undertake a risk assesment when such dangerous substances are present. You don't say - but you need to consider how many gas bottles you have, the ventilation arrangements, sources of ignition that may be present, the likelihood of leaks, working practices/storage arrangements,suitability of equipment etc.

I reckon that a distinction needs to be made between storage and use. The former should be outside but the latter can be indoors.

I'd recommend having a look at British Compressed Gas Association website particularly BCGA Guidance Note GN 2 - Guidance for the Storage of Gas Cylinders in the Workplace which is free to download (http://www.bcga.co.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=20&title=guidance_notes_). They also have a useful publication/template relating to the DSEAR if you are competent to use it.

The gas bottles its self are argonshield and propane maximum 8 in a workshop with 5 workshops in total . This was put to me from an old gas engineer within the company .I have looked at all the documents and still cannot see anything that confirms his thoughts on this . As far as i am concerned it is risk assessed and there for why is it an issue ? Mike

My advice would be one in use with none in storage as suppliers can usually deliver the same day ? Propane gives a clue as to the contents by the frost on the outside of the cylinder so when it gets near the bottom order in a fresh one and have the empty taken away. I know these are not Acetylene but worth a mention. Acetylene Cylinders involved in a fire situation, even if not directly involved in fire, are a nuisance as the Fire Service put a 200 metre exclusion zone around the premises involved, they cool the fire and hopefully the cylinders for 24 hours and do not allow anybody to enter. If you have cylinders inside the building where there is a fire and the fire service do not know what they contain they go for the exclusion zone option anyway.

Ha ha Paul I like that. You may be right about new guidance, I haven't seen that. When I was in the Brigade we were taught about acetylene and how it was not in a gaseous state inside the cylinder but a powdered solid. If involved in a fire situation fire can burn inside the cylinder, also due to flashback. If that occurs you don't see it but the cylinder can explode. That's why we were trained to immerse the cylinders in water. Problem was how do you do that without getting close ? We used to carry asbestos clothing, gloves and hoods, yes asbestos hoods on the appliance to wear in case of such incidents.

FS, I was not taught that it was powdered, but, dissolved in acetone, and the cylinder was filled with a thing called kapok, if younhave ever lifed a DA, (dissolved acetylene) cylinder you would realise that it is MUCH heavier than an equivalent sized compressed gas cylinder. Oh, and yes I have lifted them! Or, at least tried, I don't think I could now, but I did in my yoof! Probably why, at least in part why I can't now!!!

Just to demonstrate the issues with gas cylinders, consider a fire I attended involving LPG cylinders, which is shown on you tube (I have a cameo role!!) It was an illegal LPG cylinder storage depot that caused devastation locally. At about 1.09, you can see an explosion at the rear of a terrace of houses which ignites gas in the houses blowing out the front of the buildings over fire crews that had just arrived and were evacuating residents. 2 fireman were hurt, one by the exploding houses and one hit by the cylinder that punctured the wall of another house and ricocheted off onto him. Remember, this was LPG and not acetylene! Over about 70 cylinders exploded and 52 properties were damaged (including a fire brigade Range Rover that had a spinning gas cylinder land on its bonnet causing some 'trouser contamination' issues for the guys inside the vehicle! Happy days! So by all means, take care with acetylene but don't forget LPG can cause a mess too

Copied this from a post I entered on another thread... The information I have suggests that gas cylinders are in one of three states: - Being stored, being transported or being used. While the cylinders are on a trolley in the workshop, I imagine they would be considered to be in use. The same would also go for the propane cylinders powering a propane forklift. Recommendations are for propane cylinders to be stored upright whether empty or full, but while on their side on the back of the forklift, they are in use, so it's acceptable. In addition, there has been research done on acetylene by the German institute BAM. Previously it was thought you had to put cooling water onto an acetylene cylinder continuously for 24 hours after it had been involved in a fire, and that denting an acetylene cylinder could start thermal dissociation of the gas causing a pressure build up. The research done by BAM was on behalf of HSE, Transport for London (TfL), British Compressed Gas Association (BCGA) and Department for Transport due to a large number (42) of acetylene incidents in London one year (where roads and railways had to subsequently be closed for 24 hours). They found that cooling water could be applied to an acetylene cylinder for 15 minutes after it had been involved in a fire, but recommend an hour, with an hour monitoring time. They also found (by using explosives to put the mother of all dents into acetylene cylinders) that denting the cylinders does not start thermal decomposition of acetylene. Just for info - acetylene is unstable, so is dissolved in acetone. The acetone is soaked in some fibrous material like capoc (spun cotton), or spun fibre glass. If acetylene gets too hot acetylene molecules can split - when they do this creates heat which usually sets off acetylene molecules around it leading to a "chain reaction" (thermal dissociation). Pressure will build up and then you're left to waiting for the pressure relief valve to go off, unless cooling water applied in time... P.S. these were the people who trained me! http://proactivegassafet...DJW,2T1LE,7ABH9Z,A76D6,1

As well as the gases you mention ( Co2& Argon mix, Propane, Acetylene), I would have thought you would also have oxygen there for the burning kit. Otherwise you get a nice yellow flame and lots of soot from the acetylene alone, but not good enough for burning. In a previous employment the local fire brigade took a dislike to our propane powered heat gun for shrink rapping plastic around pallets of items. They suggested we put the bottle outside and pipe through the wall. This was not storage it was the one in use. As far as I am aware if it is in use it is ok inside, but storage should be outside as per AndrewCI's post. If when you store outside segregate oxygen and fuel gases (ie oxygen and Acetylene). I believe the recommendation is 3m. Chris

Only one other thing I would add to what has already been said and that is cylinders/containers with any sort of liquid in it should have a pressure relief valve. So if you look carefully at a propane, butane, liquid nitrogen, CO2 fire extinguisher container/vessel/cylinder you should find, at the very least, a bursting disc, or a spring operated pressure release valve. One reason for storing propane cylinders upright, even when empty, is if the pressure relief valve operates then it is liquid propane that will leak out - 1 litre of propane liquid evaporates into 250 litres of gas, and like argon, it goes down the way; not good for the guys working in the basement! Whatever cylinders you have, they will have something built in to reduce or delay effects of pressure (i.e. Give you time to get away!). High pressure cylinders like oxygen or nitrogen etc, are simply constructed well - usually from a single piece of metal, drawn or moulded into shape - no seams or welds means no specific weak spots; doesn't mean they won't explode, just means a certain part of the cylinder has to become sufficiently weakened by (for example...) a fire before they do. Generally speaking if a pressure relief valve is operating it doesn't mean there isn't going to be an explosion, but it does mean you'd be better off not being anywhere near the cylinder - it's already too late for the cylinder; get everyone out of the area.