Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error
COSHH assessments in Domiciliary care and peoples own homes
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mrs Noodles  
#1 Posted : 26 March 2015 14:29:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mrs Noodles
Hi

I recently new to the domiciliary care industry and would like to know how other service providers manage their COSHH assessments when staff are working in peoples own homes delivering domiciliary care.

The person whose home it is may buy different cleaning products every week which our staff would be required to use. The staff will have received COSHH training and supplied with the appropriate PPE but how do we manage safety data sheets and do we have to complete cosh assessments on every product (which as I stated above could change on a weekly basis)?

Many thanks

Lisa
Back to top
SBH  
#2 Posted : 26 March 2015 14:37:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH
Is it labelled toxic, corrosive, oxidising, harmful, irritant or flammable. See symbols on reverse of this sheet
Read instructions on the product and apply recommendations prior to use .If PPE is required and you do not have the PPE required do not use the substance. If no label do not use.

SBH
Back to top
Ian Bell  
#3 Posted : 26 March 2015 14:42:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
Base your CoSHH assessments on a 'task' based viewpoint rather than 'product' based.

If the substances are essentially domestic grade cleaning products, general CoSHH training should be adequate, issue of PPE and follow the instructions on the container label.

Cleaning products from different manufacturers are likely to contain the same base chemicals. Its how the substance is used, is the important bit.
Back to top
toe  
#4 Posted : 26 March 2015 23:50:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
I do not disagree with the comments made so far. But...

My experience in this field is that - if your staff member was to be injured in relation to a chemical used whilst working and the HSE/LA have an involvement they will want to see you COSHH risk assessment.

I have argued the point to LA that these are everyday products that staff would/could use in their own homes and with some training a lay person should be able to use these products safely. Their argument is that they are at work so COSHH applies. And for this reason we now have 50 odd COSHH assessments for most household products that are used in the social care setting.

Mrs Noodles,
Some household products can be hazardous for example some oven cleaners can be corrosive, we try to support our clients to purchase less hazardous products such as irritants instead of corrosives.

The problem arise when they ask your staff to mix up the toxic weed killer they brought from B&Q (other shops are available) to put down on their driveway!!
Back to top
toe  
#5 Posted : 27 March 2015 00:04:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
quote=Ian Bell]Base your CoSHH assessments on a 'task' based viewpoint rather than 'product' based.

Ian,
You are absolutely correct and I do not disagree, however, to use this approach in the social care setting would be extremely time consuming and impractical.

Our approach it to use the product for what they have been designed to be used for (product based) , and only use them for that reason. I.e.;

Use furniture polish on furniture,
Use window cleaner on windows and mirrors,
Use bleach for cleaning the WC,
Floor cleaner to clean the floor,
Carpet cleaner to clean the carpet, etc...

A pragmatic approach is always needed here, often the tasks change on a daily basis, one day we may be asked to clean a carpet the next day it may be using leather cleaner on the sofa. So... task based is not always possible in our setting.
Back to top
Ian Bell  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2015 10:21:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell
Is the list you give, effectively a list of tasks?.....
Back to top
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 27 March 2015 10:25:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel
Me I’d be bit nervous about allowing your staff to use someone else’s products.
You can’t tell what the stuff is, it might have been decanted into a new container or you might be missing a product and the employee might decide to improvise something.
Ideally your staff should be using your products. Only then can you be in control of the situation.
Back to top
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2015 13:12:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter
Toe wrote:

I have argued the point to LA .......... Their argument is that they are at work so COSHH applies.


How can it be applied? COSHH from first principles involves evaluation and selection at the procurement stage. Follow the instructions on the container. End of.
Back to top
bob thompson  
#9 Posted : 27 March 2015 15:32:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bob thompson
Hi we have 2500 workers in the Dom services, common sense has to prevail good quality training combined with generic safe system of work, ultimately following instructions on the labels of the stuff they are using dont assume all brands of bleach are the same etc. and instructions to not use anything they are unsure of.
Back to top
bob youel  
#10 Posted : 28 March 2015 09:27:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel
Here is where COSHH enters the real world and those designing the law did not envisage nor take account of such working circumstances nor any circumstance where data sheets are not available noting that the philosophy of what is 'reasonably practicable' needs to be fully understood even with regards to COSHH

I advise [after working in such areas for 17 years] that you take note of Bob T etc. and use common sense and there are many laws etc. connected to this sector all of which must be accounted for and COSHH is only one of them so a balance needs to be struck

The LA, NHS and SS are offloading as much as they can with regards to these work area sectors to the private sector and never did proper assessments themselves [I have worked for ~10 LA's in my time] and do not now as far as I aware; so again they want higher standards than they have themselves

I facilitated in creating a master COSHH RA that accounted for all foreseeable areas in this sector where private substances [data sheets are not provided for domestic purchases] were used by staff in such situations and thereafter created workable and easy systems for staff to follow and I suggest that U do the same noting that what is RP in the circumstances must be evaluated &applied

Additionally U need to talk to the LA's inhouse H&S bods as they should have a good handle on this & should be able to support U and I have found that QA systems/ In-house LA auditors have no allowances /place for such situations

best of luck
Back to top
kinning  
#11 Posted : 28 March 2015 11:54:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kinning
Hi Mrs Noodles
In my establishment we try and minimise the products we use so we have a product that covers a number of cleaning tasks. Our COSHH data sheets are kept in a very clear, documented folder in the housekeeping cupboard and are updated regularly.
Staff are taken through these at their induction and know of where they sit.

they also have a copy each of the COSHH risk assessment. It really is training, and a common sense approach.
Back to top
toe  
#12 Posted : 28 March 2015 17:39:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe
Bob - you are spot on the money here.

The LA who are the commissioners for these services expect a higher standards than they have themselves, which is fundamentally wrong and frustrating. NOTE: The common sense approach sounds great until and injury occurs and you come under the scrutiny of the commissioners, loved ones or the regulators (HSE, CI, CQC etc) or a lawyers letter drops on your desk for a claim, and you only defence is 'we have a common sense approach' believe me I have been there.

Ron
Quote:
Follow the instructions on the container. End of
Quote:


This is my thoughts exactly, these are everyday products that are used in everyday homes, however, the regulators do not see it this way, they expect more, for example risk assessments, whether under COSHH or Mgnt Regs, assessment's are expected for the safe 'use' of the products.
Back to top
Ian A-H  
#13 Posted : 29 March 2015 09:46:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ian A-H
We have a LAPS agreement with the local authority covering our head office and hold regular meetings with them and the HSE. This ensures a consistent approach to enforcement across the country. We have recently revised our COSHH policies which take a common sense approach to retail chemicals - do what is says on the tin. Whilst the enforcers won't outright say they endorse our policies they have indicated that they feel we are managing the risks appropriately.

So for domestic products we have a one-line RA: risk information from the label and follow manufacturers' instructions. Above that, oven cleaner, garden chemicals etc an assessment will be needed. From what has been said these types of tasks are not everyday and could be postponed until the next visit whilst an assessment is carried out. Key to this is staff training - so they know to ask about where chemicals were purchased, not to use anything that has been decanted and not to mix products.

This has to be the only practical way to approach this - carers do not have the time or knowledge to carry out COSHH assessments and Lisa, I guess there is only one of you (or a small H&S team), you cannot reasonably carry out an assessment for each and every chemical that might be found in clients' homes.
Back to top
bob youel  
#14 Posted : 30 March 2015 09:03:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel
here here Ian

One other thing to consider is that people who really want to work in this area actually care for their clients so they will put their client above other matters in a different way to people putting their jobs first in a warehouse, construction site, office etc. so the caring factor must also be accounted for

And if we are too formal this can sometimes be a backward step and will not help a care plan nor respect for the client noting that most of the people in care today went through a war or even two or more wars so our 'little hazards today are meaningless' to them as was noted to me by a 90 year old client recently

best of luck
Back to top
Mrs Noodles  
#15 Posted : 30 March 2015 15:19:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mrs Noodles
Thank you all for your many replies and very useful comments.

You were correct in assuming their is only 1 of me and yes I can't physically visit each home to complete COSHH assessments.

I agree, a common sense approach is needed here and I will work to develop, as suggested, a generic safe systems of work that will cover the use of products in clients homes. All staff are supplied with PPE and receive COSHH training as part of their induction and attend refreshers once a year. The key message is also if it has no label or has been decanted, do not use. Check what the label says.

Thanks again.
Back to top
A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 31 March 2015 11:14:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel
I have learned something new!
I am surprised that home carer staff were expected to use the clients' own cleaning products, rather than bringing their own. Apart from the COSHH issue, what would they do I they found themselves working in a house with no cleaning products available?
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2025, Yet Another Forum.NET