Rank: New forum user 
|
We have a permanent contractor maintenance team on site who have been told that they must obtain a permit to work at heights for every job that involves more that 2 steps up a ladder or steps.
Is this normal or can the risk assocciated with routine tasks be covered with training and risk assessments?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Not normal at all IMO. All people would be doing would be filling out permits all day. Total overkill and the kind of over the top reaction that gives H&S a bad name.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I agree with paulw71. Permits are normally only required to control high risk activities and not working from step ladders.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
eion99 wrote:We have a permanent contractor maintenance team on site who have been told that they must obtain a permit to work at heights for every job that involves more that 2 steps up a ladder or steps.
Is this normal or can the risk assocciated with routine tasks be covered with training and risk assessments?
Like the others have stated, the action appears to be over the top. However, ask the contractors if they have had any accidents or near misses from ladders or steps.
Maybe that's why the PTW system has been brought in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
You can have all the PTW's - Training - Risk Assessments in place but it boils down to human behavior. Maybe they have a good reason to implement a PTW for this activity ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
PTW's can be used anywhere irrespective once U think outside the box. However as stated they are usually used in high risk areas and good suggestions have already been made so follow them up and find out who told them that they need such permits on all occasions
i introduced an overall generalist PTW scheme into ~120 schools where initially the CDM and associated works contractors hated it but the schools [who were the clients] loved it and eventually all contractors signed [usually a one off event] the generalist PTW otherwise they did not get the work / the £ so PTW's can be used for more that just specific types of work/risk its just how they are used that counts as otherwise it can be a wasted exercise & PTW's become useless
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Have to agree with the other posters this appears to be an over the top reaction. Risk aversion springs to mind. Although in saying that I have to ask the wife if I can climb a ladder at home so I guess she is my PTW !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Absolutely ridiculous. Permits to work are designed to control high risk works.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Well said stonecold, there are no imminent and significant hazards from working off step ladders. It is not like entering a confined space where you know there is no oxygen.
In my experience not many organisation outside the pretrochem and processing industry implement an effective PTW scheme. I have my concerns how effective a generalist PTW scheme is and if it is actually needed for schools. How does a generalist PTW scheme make the task safer or protect others?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I agree with the last 2 posts. If I suggested a PTW for any task above 2 steps or rungs on a ladder I would be sent to get fitted out for a straight jacket. It is 9th April not the 1st !!!! Maybe its a wind-up and I have fallen for it yet again?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I am wondering it this could be because in the past they had problems with contractors not using the steps properly and they decided that they best way to control this was using a PTW.
Probably over the top but sometimes people lose their sense of proportion in the face of apathy and incompetence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Perhaps they have confused a Permit to Work with a Risk Assessment. It does happen.
However, I would humbly suggest to them that perhaps a rewording of the statement would be better. As we all know stepladders come in all sizes so it may be a more realistic option to say that a 'permit to work' is required to work at a height greater than 1 Metre and/or a RA should be made prior to use of a stepladder or a more suitable bit of kit such as a podium.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Another example of OTT and lazy health and safety in my opinion. I don't care what incidents they may or may not have had, a PtW is not going to eradicate any poor practice. Rather, basic training, good supervision and monitoring will provide better results.
It reminds me of when the W@H regulations came into force in 2005 with some companies banning the use of ladders and step ladders. Showing a complete lack of understanding with the principles of safety management.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
That is the word I was looking for Ray R. Lazy! In a nutshell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I did however on one job require a permit for stepladder work - on the balcony around the high level atrium internally as it only had handrails at that late stage of work - simple re lamping!!!! Wonderful designers more like!!! Electricians seemed unaware of a 40m drop at their side.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Regarding electricians, half of then are what we call '5 week wonders' but in truth, only 2 weeks gets them 'qualified' they are certainly not time-served and trained. (That is for another post as I have no wish to hijack a most excellent subject).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.