Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Chappell34119  
#1 Posted : 07 April 2015 09:12:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chappell34119

Noted that this is now available on the HSE website at www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l153.htm I appreciate its for the 'busy builder' but it seems not to include all of the detail from the list of specified risks outlined in Schedule 3, CDM15, which may be expected for larger or more complex projects which are notifiable. Anyone have any views on whether the content from Schedule 3 should be listed in a CPP, even if its to record that there aren't any identified issues for each (if that's the case).
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 07 April 2015 09:39:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I think you have posted the wrong link - see below. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis80.pdf I agree it's a very frugal list of topics and not a CPP as we know it. No mention of many topics such as first aid, waste, etc. It smacks of dumbing down by the HSE.
alistair  
#3 Posted : 07 April 2015 11:01:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
alistair

I agree and don't think it fits the bill. It also has a box for details of the Principal Contractor! Each contractor will need to contribute to the CPP but the PC has the duty to prepare it. Is the HSE dumbing down or just complicating things even further?
bob youel  
#4 Posted : 08 April 2015 09:25:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Without doubt there is a large amount of deliberate [in my view] dumbing down situations in all walks of life especially H&S but there is no dumbing down when U get to court [& the powers that be know that] as many a small builder will get to know should they ever get there. However the powers that be also know that there will be little enforcement in H&S nor other areas e.g. the police are being reduced in drastic numbers, so who really cares apart from the individuals concerned All in all we have gone backwards in many many many ways
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 09 April 2015 08:09:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

another thought if the builders are so busy they must be making lots of dosh so they can afford to employ a competent H&S bod
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 09 April 2015 08:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

bob youel wrote:
another thought if the builders are so busy they must be making lots of dosh so they can afford to employ a competent H&S bod
In your dreams. :)
jay  
#7 Posted : 09 April 2015 09:42:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

On the other hand, at least what is in CIS 80 is much more than "nothing" that many small domestic builders have??
John M  
#8 Posted : 09 April 2015 09:44:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

I wonder how the HSE as prosecutors will deal with the inevitable defence by the accused that they(the accused) followed and applied the CPP for a busy builder as modelled. Discuss. Jon
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 09 April 2015 11:20:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

John M wrote:
I wonder how the HSE as prosecutors will deal with the inevitable defence by the accused that they(the accused) followed and applied the CPP for a busy builder as modelled. Discuss. Jon
A robust defence if you ask me...assuming of course, the CPP was the focus of the inevitable accident and the CPP was properly completed and implemented.
boblewis  
#10 Posted : 09 April 2015 11:39:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Perhaps this is further evidence of the HSE no longer being fit for purpose :-)
peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 09 April 2015 13:46:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Bob "HSE’s targeting and enforcement policy, as a proportionate and modern regulator, also remains unchanged" !!! .....all with 30% in HSE budget since 2010 and with FFI invoices running at a level way down on what HSE forecast. Less inspectors = less inspections = less FFI.
jay  
#12 Posted : 09 April 2015 15:23:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

In the IOSH hosted webinar, the presentation by HSE made it clear that the HSE had no choice but to fully transpose the T & MCS Directive. There is no exception for the CPP in the directive therefore HSE could not restrict CPP to notifiable projects as it did pre CDM 2015. Do we all really expect a small builder involved in domestic projects, say a conservatory extension to have a 100% CPP when pre CDM2015, it was unlikely that there would have been any formal plan or H & S Method Statement? Surely, the contents in CIS 80 is better than nothing. Also, the HSE has been campaigning/targeting the small (aka busy) builder with a whole range of topics etc. listed below--all are under the heading "What you need to know as a busy builder" http://www.hse.gov.uk/co...ction/areyou/builder.htm Preventing injury during plasterboard handling: Preventing injury from handling heavy blocks: Construction dust: Old lead paint: Hard hats – Running a small construction site leaflet Manual handling leaflet Roof work leaflet Welfare leaflet Excavation: Avoiding concealed services and overhead power lines: Basement construction: Solar panel Installation - Fragile roofs: Keeping your site tidy: Protecting the public: Fragile roofs: There is also "The Absolutely Essential Toolkit for the smaller construction contractor" http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/conindex.htm I prefer to view it as a glass half full rather than half empty
mylesfrancis  
#13 Posted : 09 April 2015 15:49:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mylesfrancis

Chappell34119 wrote:
I appreciate its for the 'busy builder' but it seems not to include all of the detail from the list of specified risks outlined in Schedule 3, CDM15, which may be expected for larger or more complex projects which are notifiable.
Which is probably why it states in the orange-y colour box at the start:
Quote:
If the job will last longer than 500 person days or 30 working days (with more than 20 people working at the same time) it will need to be notified to HSE and it is likely to be too complex for this simple plan format.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.