Rank: Forum user 
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Near miss recorded or accident recorded?
For me the insect bite should be entered into the near miss recording procedure and still adequately investigated. If the bite leads to infection or potentially something more serious, it is then entered into the accident procedure as a normal injury related accident would be but again, adequately investigated....
I know there are two camps here, those that do believe all insect bites should be classified as accidents and those that do not.
Surely it makes no difference if we start the recording at the near miss stage, does it??
Thoughts would be welcome....
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Rank: Super forum user
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I really wouldn't be recording these at all.
Of course, this is dependant on your trade. If you are a bee keeper then yes (for example). I am guessing you work in construction, so if you are working somewhere where exotic insects are kept which could be venomous then yes I would be too.
For day to day stuff though I don't think it is really proportionate.
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No, a Warehouse environment with hundreds of employees...
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More or less what asleywillson said - I work in a warehouse facility and I do not "officially" record them. If an Employee fills an accident / incident form out then fair enough ill just file it and not include in my KPIs.
If I asked someone to get rid of a wasps nest and susequently got stung then I would record it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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My approach would be:
If it is a bite from an indigenous insect, i.e. one that we could expect to meet within the UK environment, then I would not report it.
If it is a bite from a 'foreign' insect, perhaps when opening a packing case delivered from abroad, then I would report this. I would also seek advice just to ensure that the consequences of the bite are not potentially serious.
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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This is where you have to apply common sense.
What sort of insect bites are we talking about; are talking about wasp stings, horse fly bites and just little mossy bites?
I’d record them and then investigate them as a group issue (not as individual incidents).
If for example they provide evident that there is wasp nest in the area, you have a duty to get rid of it (either yourself or your landlord but you must do something)
On the other hand if the little blighters are just a minor nuisance don’t worry about them but be certain that’s all they are and don’t dismiss this out of hand.
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Hi all
Judith Hacket - HSE chair makes some interesting points about a wasp sting, basically how an investigation and risk assessment etc is disproportionate.
It may not be exactly the same as this case, but it is certainly worth considering.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/ne...ng-in-the-tale220814.htm
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If there is single incident of wasp stinging an employee at a location, then you can put it down to bad luck. On the other hand if there is evidence from multiple incidents that there is a wasp’s net in the building then there is duty to do something about this. This is why I mentioned common sense, something that which Ms Hackett seems not to believe in. We all remember the hash she made of her statements about Murray Mound at Wimbledon a few years ago.
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We have had, over a four month summer period, over 19 reports of people being bitten. No idea what but midge or mosquito I would assume.
All incidents have been on different shifts and at different times.
We cannot prove the bites where done here or at employees homes prior to coming into work.
We have had pest control in and they used a pesticide in all areas of the building but this was done in Winter.
We are bracing ourselves for this warm months to see what will happen.
No nests, wasps or otherwise involved.
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Had to check the date of this one
This thread leads to questions in my mind
If the health and safety advisor adequately investigates such trivia- they are under employed.
Common sense --is it something that is so lacking in our trade,
are health and safety professionals so terrified as to say not worth investigating, after the person says - yes but it really hurt and my manager wants a full investigation, risk assessments, method statements on how I stay safe, control measures etc. etc.
Now if the person had a serious of unfortunate events due to a sting that i would investigate
eg a wasp stings a bricky 30 feet up causing him to throw a brick. The brick hits some morter, the morter travels 20 feet hitting the back of the neck of a roofer, the roofer through shock drops a nail the nail falls to the floor i drive over it causing a puncture --- that would need investigating
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A near miss of what? I don't understand the question. Perhaps it's one of those 'fun' ones?
'I questioned the Wasp/Gnat about why she did it, knowing about the site safety rules, not to mention HASAW but she remained tight-lipped about the whole affair'.
A wasp sting or insect bite is not an 'accident' it's is part of life's sweet fabric. A bit of a pain in the bottom maybe but it is a fact of life surely?
I for one would never ask anyone to remove a wasp nest unless they were a company dealing with sue things and knew how to go about it. Some species of wasp are more aggressive than others (even in the UK)
A flea infestation of the office is one thing but really,
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Rank: Super forum user
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Genuinely surprised that some of us would not want it recorded.
It happened, so report it. What's the problem? What you do about investigating it is another matter.
Going back to original question: I sit with the 'incident includes near misses' camp.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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19 bites in 4 months of the summer is not much if you are in that sort of environment. Is the warehouse surrounded by fields or moorland or within close proximity to open water? I can happily get bitten half a dozen times just walking out of my house for half an hour.
Unless they are insects that you are involved with as a work project, then you really have no control over it and it wouldn't be classed as work related.
I see no point in trending this as, for sure, hotter weather will mean more bites and cooler weather will mean less - unless you have some means of regulating the external temperature and stopping the sun from coming out, you are on a hiding to nothing.
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At risk of giving this more of my time than needed, I'll ask this:
Near miss of what?
This sort of posting frightens me a little. A friend of mine works with the forestry commission and I have just spent a few moments trying to sound serious when I asked her if insect bites were reported/recorded. She's quite a sweet person most of the time but today, for some reason, she questioned my sanity and the quality of people engaged in Health and Safety.
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Robert
In that case I fully concur insect bites should be recorded. The work is such that insects are an occupational hazard and must be treated as work related.
At the end of the day, that's why we do risk assessments - in one case the bites are not work related, in the other they probably are. Horses for courses as they say.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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If bite on work place premises then record as first aid response incident and forget about it unless it turns infectious.
Badger
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Robert Pearson wrote:At risk of giving this more of my time than needed, I'll ask this:
Near miss of what?
This sort of posting frightens me a little. A friend of mine works with the forestry commission and I have just spent a few moments trying to sound serious when I asked her if insect bites were reported/recorded. She's quite a sweet person most of the time but today, for some reason, she questioned my sanity and the quality of people engaged in Health and Safety.
Totally agree!!
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Hilary, my friend would fill a report book a day. A tic bite may be a different thing I guess but as far as the OP goes...but, we are , I hope reasonable people.
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Sorry Hilary, I hit the 'post button' before I finished.
The logic you used is unclear to me. My friend works in the forestry business it is true. She works outdoors as do traffic wardens, beat officers, rescue teams up in the mountain an dales, building site workers etc. The do not work with insects as such. Bee keepers are a different matter and use, for the most part PPE. So does it follow then that if people may be stung or bitten when working out of doors they should all wear PPE? and this PPE be backed up by an RA?
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Robert
little surprised at your friends reaction. I would not be recording every insect bite but if I worked in the forestry industry I would be very concerned about Tick Bites in some parts of the country. Lyme disease is not very nice!
So as others have said insect bites in general - defiantly no need to record but in some sectors may need to take more care.
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I agree with most of the comments above to some degree, but let me give you an example of why I think they sould be reported. I work in the Middle East, in an area where we have many species of snakes, spiders and scorpions. I have a pest control system in place, whereby contractors come round and spray our work area weekly. I report every sighting of beasties to our facility maintenace contractors, who then get pest control in. So, we know it's a local problem and we deal with it. About 2 years ago one of our employees found a scorpion under his workbench and what was most scary about it wasn't it's species, but the fact that it was a juvenile ie it was tiny, which was a clear indication that our pest control system had missed a work area. After an intensive sweep of the area that I instigated, the pest control guys discovered a nest in a cool corner of the workshop (Dead mature and juvenile scorpions) So what I'm saying is that my response was to an event that was out of the norm, if you find a tiny scorpion on it's own, it hasn't traveled far and a nest must be nearby, so you look for it. Similarily if you have a sudden increase of bee or wasp stings, go find the source (Not personally) if the root cause is in your workplace you have a duty to fix it
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I forgot to mention that you should also bear in mind that air and sea transportaion introduces exotic creatures to UK shores all the time.
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I was at a meeting yesterday where a guest speaker told us all about Maritime Pollution Regulations (MARPOL) and how they are regulated, but the speaker didn't mention the upload and download of ships ballast water and how that "Transports" alien species to UK shores, anyway thats a different subject but something you should consider if you live near major docks
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Just issue bee keeper suits to all of your staff then you will be fine
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Oh dear, oh dear...reading some of these posts I do also wonder about the quality of some members on these forums.. theres no need for the harsh replies and sarcasm.
Look, if you think its stupid or unworthy of a response, then please do not respond.
We work in a heavily unionised industry and if we were to go along the lines of some of your suggestions, we would be involved in industrial disputes daily, never mind accident reporting.
For those that say it should not be reported, thank you for your contributions.
Can I ask what you would do if the employee demanded it was reported on your accident reporting process? According to some it would be reported but not investigated?
For those that say report it on the near miss procedure, (if asked to report it) as it did not cause injury, I would agree.
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Maybe it depends on where you work and what your exposed to, but here, I can't ignore bites and stings because they can be really harmful and in my previous post I said that exotic bugs are being introduced to the UK quite often
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Are any of you equipped or qualified to determine the effects that may have
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My main customer's procedure is to record a wasp sting as an incident if it stopped the person from working for an hour or more, but as a 'medical' incident not requiring investigation.
Similarly for an unexplained severe nosebleed.
Just keep these things on record in case an epidemic occurs then you have a record.......
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Brian Hagyard I mentioned the Tic bite in #4 above.
As for every midge bite put into the 'accident book', this is up to you. I suggest then that when a 'bug', insect or any such animal bites you or anyone else, you should immediately identify the offending creature.
If it looks like a 'black widow' (false widow), don't delay... panic at once. Once this is done then then rush the patient to hospital as you cannot be too careful.
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Robert
Everything in moderation of course. No one in their right minds is going to report every midge bite, as you say, we would be here all day, but in an outdoors woodsy type environment, recording a bite is a lot more important than in an indoors warehouse environment in general.
As for PPE - no of course not, but what about insect repellent being issued to staff in this environment - not such a dumb idea methinks. This would arise out of your risk assessment (generic not species specific) and this way you could eliminate a lot of the midge bites and just focus on those nasty creepy crawlies that you may need to report.
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elevation wrote:
Can I ask what you would do if the employee demanded it was reported on your accident reporting process? According to some it would be reported but not investigated?
I think to if the employee insisted, I would explain that we wouldn't normally record it. However if they were adamant then I would record it, but not investigate it. For the sake of 10 minutes time and a piece of paper I would rather keep the employee on side and happy.
I have taken it that you aren't working in an environment where there are a lot of insects (giving an unusually high level of exposure therefore increasing risk through probability) and also that any insects you do encounter are not likely to be venomous. As a lot of other people have said, in these situations it would be a different kettle of fish altogether.
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Ashley,
Thank you.
No we do not work in an environment associated with a lot of insects but we have thousands of employees and unfortunately we do get a substantial amount of them wishing to register accidents from insect bites.
I agree with your sentiments though but where i would have difficulty is not investigating the report.
That is why I think it ideal to utilise a near miss procedure for the bite in the first instance and then should there be any reaction, infection or allergic, then we can initiate the accident procedure and investigate on a wider basis?
ashleywillson wrote:elevation wrote:
Can I ask what you would do if the employee demanded it was reported on your accident reporting process? According to some it would be reported but not investigated?
I think to if the employee insisted, I would explain that we wouldn't normally record it. However if they were adamant then I would record it, but not investigate it. For the sake of 10 minutes time and a piece of paper I would rather keep the employee on side and happy.
I have taken it that you aren't working in an environment where there are a lot of insects (giving an unusually high level of exposure therefore increasing risk through probability) and also that any insects you do encounter are not likely to be venomous. As a lot of other people have said, in these situations it would be a different kettle of fish altogether.
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My advice would be to forget about such trivial things. You say you work in a large warehouse, surely your time would be better spent looking at significant risks such as FLTs, racking safety, manual handling, moving vehicles, goods yard safety etc etc. Warehouse are high risk environments why waste your time on insects?
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Again an amazing variety of views reflecting (I hope) the very different environments people work in.
I’m concerned with what feels like some vitriol though. If you can’t help don’t comment please, it is counterproductive to, what I think, is the ethos of this forum.
Just because someone is concerned about insect bites does not mean they’re ignoring other more serious hazards.
My take is that if staff are asking for what some would consider trivial incidents to be recorded that shows a workforce engaged in safety (I hope). I’d not want to do anything to discourage that. Taking a report seriously is a way to encourage engagement. That does not mean spending hours investigating. A quick note on the accident report that you don’t consider it significant enough to warrant an investigation is enough. We have to be tough enough to stand up and say out loud I’m not investigating this when we’re challenged.
That said record anything that’s reported, where’s the harm?
Cheers
Graham
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Elevation
I would bear in mind that a near miss is something where, if the circumstances had of been slightly different, injury or damage would have occurred.
I wouldn't be comfortable with this being a near miss as such, it just doesn't seem to fit for me.
However, if a near miss system satisfies your employees and won't burden you with a large number of potentially and probably fruitless investigations then go for it!
I'd also be thinking about this in more depth if you are getting a substantial amount of bites in one place, is there something that should or could be done at source? Could this be a housekeeping issue perhaps? Just something to consider...
Having said all that, don't get too hung up on this. As stonecold puts it (bluntly ;) ), this is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things and it looks like this is going to be more about keeping employees on side with H&S and fostering a good culture than actually reporting the incidents themselves!
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Stonecold
You see the problem with your post is simple, I am not asking about those risks because we effectively manage those risks, we do not suffer reported accidents in those categories to such a level as the insect bites. Why?
Because we have and continue to work hard in our risk reduction plans in those and other areas.
Our workforce is nearly half a million employees in total and we have hundreds of warehouses.
Perhaps just a simple yes I would, no I wouldnt, would suffice if you wished to contribute towards the discussion. Instead of your unfounded and unprofessional belief that what your saying is right and everyone else is being ridiculous.
stonecold wrote:My advice would be to forget about such trivial things. You say you work in a large warehouse, surely your time would be better spent looking at significant risks such as FLTs, racking safety, manual handling, moving vehicles, goods yard safety etc etc. Warehouse are high risk environments why waste your time on insects?
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A point well made Graham...
Graham wrote:Again an amazing variety of views reflecting (I hope) the very different environments people work in.
I’m concerned with what feels like some vitriol though. If you can’t help don’t comment please, it is counterproductive to, what I think, is the ethos of this forum.
Just because someone is concerned about insect bites does not mean they’re ignoring other more serious hazards.
My take is that if staff are asking for what some would consider trivial incidents to be recorded that shows a workforce engaged in safety (I hope). I’d not want to do anything to discourage that. Taking a report seriously is a way to encourage engagement. That does not mean spending hours investigating. A quick note on the accident report that you don’t consider it significant enough to warrant an investigation is enough. We have to be tough enough to stand up and say out loud I’m not investigating this when we’re challenged.
That said record anything that’s reported, where’s the harm?
Cheers
Graham
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Rank: Super forum user
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elevation wrote:Stonecold
You see the problem with your post is simple, I am not asking about those risks because we effectively manage those risks, we do not suffer reported accidents in those categories to such a level as the insect bites. Why?
Because we have and continue to work hard in our risk reduction plans in those and other areas.
Our workforce is nearly half a million employees in total and we have hundreds of warehouses.
Perhaps just a simple yes I would, no I wouldnt, would suffice if you wished to contribute towards the discussion. Instead of your unfounded and unprofessional belief that what your saying is right and everyone else is being ridiculous.
Unprofessional? hmm really. I was always taught to ignore the trivial and concentrate on the significant. Maybe if we all took that approach the workplace would be a safer place and non safety people wouldnt ridicule health and safety at work so much.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I can see this thread going south....
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