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Davidwalker  
#1 Posted : 14 May 2015 10:57:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Davidwalker

Good Morning All, I think I know the answer to this question however for clarification I thought I would share this. As Principal contractor I believe we are responsible if a sub contractor working for Client is working our CDM area a RIDDOR,minor Accident/Incident has ocured. The subcontractor is under the PC supervision and have received Induction & working to PC Permits etc. Is it what I assume correct or is the Client responsible as they have been approved by them directly employed by them. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Kind Regards David
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:02:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi David The PC is responsible for all site health, safety and welfare and all the baggage which goes with it. The client's contractors should be treated the same as any other sub-contractor, no more, no less. However I am aware the client often believes their appointed contractors get special privileges and are outside the PC's remit. This is where the PC needs to be firm and to apply consistency. The client also has duties to ensure the PC, PD, etc are carrying out those duties pursuant to CDM 2015. Ray
Davidwalker  
#3 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:22:14(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Davidwalker

Hi Ray, Thank you for getting back to me. I understand the PC is responsible to plan, manage & monitor the activites on site however they do not have a responsibility to supervise sun contractor works so in a case of a RIDDOR are they liable? Very true, the client do beleive there appointed contractors get specail privillages however if the client is responsible to ensure they are competent as in performance and health & safety should the client be responsible if an incident occure as the PC has had no control in vetting the sub contractor?
sidestep45  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:42:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sidestep45

Not quite sure what you mean by being "liable" for a RIDDOR, the responsibility for reporting RIDDORs would not change, so for instance the Principal Contractor would report the overturning of any lifting equipmnt on a CDM site regardless of whether it was being operated by a contractor or some one appointed by the client, where as the employer would report any injuries to some one in their employ, and alert the PC to the fact of the event. The PC is responsible for the H&S for anyone on the CDM but your are right this does not include the close supervision of contractors or others
sidestep45  
#5 Posted : 14 May 2015 13:43:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sidestep45

*you're
Davidwalker  
#6 Posted : 14 May 2015 15:14:45(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Davidwalker

Apolagies Ray I mean would the RIDDOR have an infulence on the PC stats or the contractors stats if the it was down to negligence by the contractor by not following a safe system of work for example? Thanks
RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 14 May 2015 19:45:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

David If I understand your question correctly (BTW - this site does have a spill chucker) any reportable incident on the PC's site would by definition become part of the PC's performance stats. If a PC was so concerned about a sub-contractor or operative they would be within their rights to remove them from site regardless of what the client would wish. As mentioned previously, a PC is not required to provide close supervision to subbies. That said, they should provide a modicum of support, monitoring and supervision.
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 16 May 2015 07:23:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

such areas are not always easy to handle irrespective of what the law says as many clients do their own thing irrespective e.g. clients forcing their 'favourite companies' onto PC's, and know that they hold the purse strings and where a PC causes ripples, even ripples that are really good for everybody, clients can make them pay so handle all parties with care and put all things in writing
Davidwalker  
#9 Posted : 16 May 2015 20:05:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Davidwalker

Thank you very much for your answers guys, they have been very helpful.
Frannym46  
#10 Posted : 28 July 2015 08:42:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Frannym46

Hi All, I have been nominated as the principal contractor for an office refurb. We have employed a principal designer as well. I am an employee for the company and I would appreciate any info you can give me as I am anxious to ensure that I get this right. I am IOSH trained and hoping that will help me. The HSC website says the PC must plan, manage and monitor the construction phase and coordinate matters relating to health and safety during the construction phase to ensure that, so far as is reasonably practicable, construction work is carried out without risks to health or safety. I imagine I must insist on getting the RAMS from each contractor? Do I need to create risk assessments for each contractor for each phase of the refurb? Any info you can give me is very much appreciated. Many thanks Franny
RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 28 July 2015 10:48:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Franny In the first instance I suggest you should prepare a Construction Phase Plan (CPP) which is the blueprint how the project and sub-contractors will managed taking into the working environment and inherent risks. A review of the CDM 2015 Regs would be a good call. No need to create unnecessary bureaucracy...however reviewing the sub-contractors' RAMS is part of the management process. Ray
firesafety101  
#12 Posted : 28 July 2015 16:35:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Firstly the employer is responsible for reporting under RIDDOR no matter who appoints who and who is responsible for what. The second point re PC, all sub contactors should produce and provide for review their RAMS. You may be advised to make a programme with all contractors activities in a staged form and issue that to every subby. The CPP is to be made up and revised as the project progresses and don't forget the health and safety file that should be developed by receiving relevant information from all subbys and suppliers/installers. The principal designer must provide a Pre construction information document.
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