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Colossians 1:14  
#1 Posted : 21 May 2015 10:34:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

Does an accident, immediately render the corresponding risk assessment covering the activity as NOT being 'suitable and sufficient'? (No matter how good and thoroughly the RA was put together)
Colossians 1:14  
#2 Posted : 21 May 2015 10:49:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Colossians 1:14

My M.D. is very proactive but frightened to death about not having a specific risk assessment for certain jobs. Take working at height as an example, we employ 30 gas engineers that can be working anywhere in the UK (potentially 30 different sites on any given day). We have a generic risk assessment that covers all company activities including WAH. From that generic RA I put together a safe system of work pack that all engineers have on their vans which covers the do & don'ts of all the significant findings from our RA. In addition all engineers have WAH training with specialist teams also having TETRA training for pitched roof work. The M.D. wants every individual job given its own RA. Now I can just change the site names, dates etc on the generic one (the M.D. would be happy with this) but that to me is just a paper exercise and waste of time or I could to go to every conceivable job we do and do a site RA which would be a logistical nightmare. My question is would the comprehensive generic RA suffice in board members opinion?
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 21 May 2015 11:00:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

One of my customers has a similar issue with gangs working around the country digging holes for streetworks. Gangs are provided with a booklet of copies of a carefully developed generic RA template, and the gang leader is trained to add/delete information to make a specific RA for each digging site. He'll add information about traffic management, weather, barriers and temporary footpaths around works, footpath closures, safe parking of their vehicles and movement of excavators, special consideration for areas near shops, schools etc, the needs for premises access and wheelchair/scooter access etc etc So the safety manager does not need to do all the specific risk assessments; train the experienced operators/supervisors.
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 21 May 2015 11:08:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

With regards your first question, it depends on whose perspective you are talking about. A lawyer might argue the RA was not suitable and sufficient due to res ispa loquitur (the facts speak for themselves) however hindsight is a wonderful thing. So, no I don't think an accident necessarily renders the RA unsuitable, however it might, depending on the causal factor(s). It may be prudent to review an RA following an incident. Don't forget we do not have a crystal ball... A suite of generic RAs for activities is the norm. There are issues with generic RAs, they may not be suitable for each and every task. That said, they may just require a tweak to fit the environment or task. Providing bespoke RAs would be very time consuming and in my opinion not the best use of a practitioner's time. There is also a danger of being over reliant on RAs. They are a management tool and only cover the significant known risks. They are not a panacea for eliminating all accidents and incidents as some believe.
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 21 May 2015 11:22:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

You should be training your guys to do a dynamic risk assessment when they come onto a new site. I know the HSE has a downer on dynamic RAs but that is because the term is being abused, by people who don’t want to do any sort of assessment. The correct idea of dynamic RA is that you come onto a new site, have a look and compare the situation to the one described in your generic assessment and the guys are empowered (key word that) to a) decide that the generic covers it and they can continue b) they need extra controls, so they apply them and get on with the job or c) decide that this is way beyond what the generic RA covers and they don’t do the job. A key part of this approach is that they must a) record their decision and b) feedback any modifications into the generic RA. In that way the generic RA will become more detailed and appropriate for the work the guys are doing (ie more suitable and sufficient). It might be a bit laborious at first but it is less hassle that trying to create new RA for each site (often with no real information about the hazards you might come across) but is more useful than the paper exercise that you mentioned.
JohnW  
#6 Posted : 21 May 2015 11:29:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

I agree with Ray that an accident does not render an RA unsuitable. The RA document that I have developed, similar to many others I know, categorises the risk by referring to a matrix for Accident Likelihood and Accident Severity, so in fact our risk assessments accept that accidents can still happen despite the controls we have in place. For example a 'Quite Possible' likelihood is: 'Under normal conditions an accident or harmful exposure will not occur – some abnormality or fault is necessary to cause it' and a likely likelihood :0) : 'Under prevailing conditions an accident will be very difficult to avoid, or long-term damage may occur' and clearly that sort of likelihood requires action to be taken to develop more effective controls. If you have an accident then that is an opportunity to review the risk assessment but, depending on the injury, not necessarily always a need to change the controls.
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 21 May 2015 12:02:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

IMO if you look at the definition of an accident it usually starts something like "an unforeseen event". If that is the case how can anyone possibly prevent the accident if it is "unforeseen"? Take care now, look out for the unforeseen ha ha. (Not Friday yet is it).
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 21 May 2015 14:34:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Legal precedent has focussed on foreseeable risk. Accidents do happen. The best risk assessment cannot legislate for someone doing something bewilderingly stupid.
ashleywillson  
#9 Posted : 21 May 2015 14:59:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

Colossians 1:14 wrote:
Does an accident, immediately render the corresponding risk assessment covering the activity as NOT being 'suitable and sufficient'? (No matter how good and thoroughly the RA was put together)
No. If your RA said "wear a hard hat" and the operative did not and sustained a head injury, is that the risk assessment at fault? Of course not! When I investigate an accident I always look at the associated Risk Assessments and Safe Systems of Work to "tick off" the control measures. If all control measures have been met but the accident still has occurred, I would consider reviewing it to put further controls into place. Sometimes, no matter how well put together your risk assessment is, there will be things you cannot anticipate and it is only by reviewing these and improving the risk assessment that it gets better. This doesn't make your assessment unsuitable or insufficient. What would make it unsuitable or insufficient would be once you have identified what caused the hazard to occur, if you did nothing about it then I believe it would become this as you would not have recorded the 'significant findings' and you would be aware that there is a possibility this hazard could occur. To make it clear, the accident doesn't automatically make your assessment insufficient or unsuitable but your actions (or lack thereof) might do. It's all situational...
mark frearson  
#10 Posted : 21 May 2015 15:48:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mark frearson

The end result of a risk assessment is to put controls in place to cover eventualities that are reasonably foreseeable. There is no way you can cover every eventuality with risk assessment - so I concur - no, the risk assessment is not deemed unsuitable once a loss occurs as a result of something unforeseeable.
bob youel  
#11 Posted : 22 May 2015 07:19:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

I agree with Mark, Ron etc. and as already stated get your guys to a standard where they can undertake 'on the spot' assessments that add value & follow up their actions by audits etc. undertaken by their supervisors after looking after highways works of all types and sizes for 17 years all we issued to the guys /girls was a single sided sheet of paper with the high risks indicated therein and with a space to add other significant risks present & their solutions that were specific to that site --- these sheets were regularly evaluated against the main primary risk assessments held in the office to see if foreseeable risks had been missed and how the single sheets were being managed -- the system worked well even with HSE investigations, and remember the employees are there to do a days work and are already bombarded with 'other' types of paper so try to keep it simple for them where U can as for your boss; well he/she is correct in that having a good quality paper trail goes along way to help them in a court
stevedm  
#12 Posted : 26 May 2015 06:30:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

In principle agree with what has been said...however as Ray says the Facts speak for themselves...having been in court defending such a Situation...the strength of your Argument and so prove that the incident was not foreseeable (I had the same Person involved in the RA as the IP) is 1. the Quality of your RA in the first place and 2. the Detail and consistency of your incident Investigation process.... the mistake most companies make is changing their risk assessments immediately as a result of an incident...thus giving credence to it WAS foreseeable...the requirement is to Review your risk assessment not necessarily change it... (excuse the spelling German Keyboard).. hope this helps
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