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VLWood  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2015 14:10:44(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
VLWood

Hi,

We have a fixed ladder attached to the side of a tank in on of our plant rooms. They are 2.6m in height and are fitted with hoops at the top. The hoops extend out 86cm from the ladder; Except they aren't actually hooped in shape - they are square and I've been asked if this meets legal requirements.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to BS4211, nor am I likely to in the near future...

Does anyone know if there are specific requirements for the shape / dimensions of the hoops?

Many thanks
Durham37380  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2015 14:33:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Durham37380

Looks like your ladder was designed to BS 5395 Pt3 1985 whereby a square-ish back hoop was featured. Dimensions should not be < 690mm or > 760mm dia. A later standard BS EN 14122 Pt 4 - 2004 - 'Permanent means of access to machinery - fixed ladders' specifies back hoops of between 650mmm to 800mm dia.

Remember British Standards (which are copyright) are not law but they are very useful codes or guidance and ideal for defining contract specifications. They (and Building Regulations) are rarely retrospective, so you don't have to keep modifying or replacing ladders just because the latest spec' has changed. Your ladder was probably compliant at the time of build and whether you wish to bring up to modern specification is up to your risk assessment and your employers wallet.

British Standards can be purchased individually from the BSi web site.

Hope this helps.





Kate  
#3 Posted : 12 June 2015 15:55:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There is no legal requirement for hoops.
I seem to remember HSE have published a research report (on their website) that concludes that the value of hoops is questionable at best.
achrn  
#4 Posted : 12 June 2015 16:10:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Kate wrote:
There is no legal requirement for hoops.
I seem to remember HSE have published a research report (on their website) that concludes that the value of hoops is questionable at best.


http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr258.htm

Notable for being incredibly long and substantially useless. It concludes that things aren't what they might seem, and something should be done. It's the equivalent of asking for directions and being told you shouldn't start from here.

If you actually want to know whether your ladder should or should not have hoops, it doesn't help. At least, it hasn't helped me.
aud  
#5 Posted : 12 June 2015 19:21:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

I have always been curious as to the actual purpose of these hoops, as it is clear to me that they have limited, if any, fall protection capacity. I was told, years ago, that they were for "resting" and when looking at ladders up the side of mill chimneys, quite a climb, that made some sense.
The research report (ah research reports!) seems to conclude that hoops are a waste of time for fall protection, and the actual reasons for them to be there at all seems to be lost in the annals of history. As was any reason for shape variation.
As Kate states, the author appears to be saying that hoops are questionable (being kind?) FAS are the way to go, but these didn't always perform as expected and better testing regimes are needed for these anyway (another RR).
So there is no legal standard as such (just BS) and for the purpose of risk they are ineffective.

Andrew Harrison  
#6 Posted : 16 June 2015 08:46:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Andrew Harrison

I was looking through the workplace regs the other day after instaling an internal access ladder for access to plant on the roof.

Workplace Health safety and welfare Regs……….Pg 26-27


123 Where a ladder passes through a floor, the opening should be as small as possible. The opening should be fenced as far as possible, and a gate should be provided where necessary to prevent falls.

124 Fixed ladders at an angle of less than 15 degrees to the vertical (a pitch of more than 75 degrees) which are more than 2.5 m high should where possible be fitted with suitable safety hoops or permanently fixed fall arrest systems. Hoops should be at intervals of not more than 900 mm measured along the stiles, and should commence at a height of 2.5 m above the base of the ladder. The top hoop should be in line with the top of the fencing on the platform served by the ladder. Where a ladder rises less than 2.5 m, but is elevated so that it is possible to fall a distance of more than 2 m, a single hoop should be provided in line with the top of the fencing. Where the top of a ladder passes through a fenced hole in a floor, a hoop need not be provided at that point.
Xavier123  
#7 Posted : 16 June 2015 09:34:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

I think you need to come up to date. The 'Regs' (meaning the Approved Code of Practice) stopped dealing with working at height stuff around about 2005. When the Work at Height Regulations came along.

The ACoP was further updated recently too:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/l24.pdf
Xavier123  
#8 Posted : 16 June 2015 09:40:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Just realised that you may have been making a point about it being covered in the old ACoP. As I don't want to come across as being an unmentionable I shall apologise in advance if that was the case!
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