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jon joe  
#1 Posted : 10 June 2015 15:46:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jon joe

If lets say you had 50 working instructions....Would you necessarily have to have a Risk Assessment for each...Or could you do the risk Assessment by working activity......i.e. some working activity i.e. loading trailers, may include several separate Working Instructions....so could you have a RA simply for the overall Activity????
chris42  
#2 Posted : 10 June 2015 16:14:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Yes

I think it is better you have a risk assessment for the entire activity, less easy to miss a stage. IMHO

Chris
Safety Smurf  
#3 Posted : 10 June 2015 16:19:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Yes you can. We do.
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 10 June 2015 16:25:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is one of those how long is a piece of string type questions. There is no requirement for a separate risk assessment for each SOP/Method Statement but that depends on the nature of the method statement. If it is short and only deals with a small part of an overall activity then it would make more sense to have one risk assessment for the overall activity. In the other hand you should avoid overly generic assessments which don’t look at what you are actually doing just deal in generalities. A hard balancing act.
Graham  
#5 Posted : 11 June 2015 09:17:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

This is something I’m thinking about at the moment. We’re a laboratory based biological research company. Our chemists have some 20 odd SOP’s which are to all intents and purposes risk assessments. Our biologists have just over twice as many covering the use of different pieces of kit and different techniques.
I see a risk assessment is a management tool, but have been a bit slow in getting this idea across so now I’m considering looking through all these documents and summing the controls to see if I can just get a list of control measures that our staff need to know about without having to read all the documents that apply to them each year as we currently do. So a biologist who does not use a piece of equipment currently does not read the risk assessment relating to that piece of kit. But if the controls are the same for all similar pieces of equipment just reminding themselves of the controls each year should be enough.
The chemists are a bit different (they always are) in that their risks are specific for each reaction they do so they all need to know about (and be reminded about) the controls in place for each reaction say for example a reaction releasing cyanide needs a bit more care then one that does not.
Do others have similar processes where line management arrange for risk assessment to be annually reviewed and then only require staff to read a summary of the control measures since that’s what we really need them to focus on.
ashleywillson  
#6 Posted : 11 June 2015 09:27:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ashleywillson

Either method works fine. As long as you are hitting those 5 magic steps you wont be criticised!

It really comes down to company preference and thinking about how best you can communicate with your employees and which they are more likely to understand and take notice of.

JNP  
#7 Posted : 11 June 2015 10:04:36(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
JNP

We are carrying out a review of our risk assessment process at the moment and the process I am suggesting is that for any new task we identify the hazards and assess the risks using a dynamic risk assessment form, one page document. We then assess the risks as we are writing the SOP. We then carry out any reviews using both documents. The area will then have a holistic risk assessment.
hilary  
#8 Posted : 11 June 2015 12:20:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I think it is horses for courses. I have risk assessments that cover a particular discipline such as refilling the diesel tank - a one off and some that cover a particular area like a manufacturing cell or part thereof, it just depends on what the risks are and how they can be either joined or separated.
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2015 12:23:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

?

a "work instruction" is only one kind of control measure - and well down the heirarchy.
jon joe  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2015 16:07:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jon joe

Ron Hunter wrote:
?

a "work instruction" is only one kind of control measure - and well down the heirarchy.


we have both working instructions and SOP
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 15 June 2015 11:17:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

jon joe wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
?

a "work instruction" is only one kind of control measure - and well down the heirarchy.


we have both working instructions and SOP

what's the difference?
jon joe  
#12 Posted : 15 June 2015 14:52:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jon joe

A Kurdziel wrote:
jon joe wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
?

a "work instruction" is only one kind of control measure - and well down the heirarchy.


we have both working instructions and SOP

what's the difference?


procedure states what will be done and by who.....instruction is how its done
bob youel  
#13 Posted : 16 June 2015 08:37:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

In my view RA's are not WSSW [or whatever people call them nowadays] and VV but both can be developed together as U progress with one being the risk evaluator and the other used to undertake the work noting that time and again I have seen documents that are so muddled up between the 2 areas that its terribly confusing no matter how many pages they consist of nor how pretty they are ------ and as started only significant risk in any given circumstance needs to be evaluated however U do not know what is significant until its evaluated!

also note that if U end up in court U will need lots of paper as proof that U are managing
A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 16 June 2015 10:20:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is the problem with terminology- what you call a procedure-what and by whom, we’d call a policy. The SOP is what the person actually does and it is what is audited under the quality control system. Staff are expected to follow the SOP and the QA people get upset if they start to create separate methods statements etc.
Originally the QA department wanted a separate risk assessment for each SOP but as we maintained hundreds of the things this became impracticable. I persuaded them that it should be possible to create a Risk Assessment for a group of related SOPs and so reduce the burden on the staff doing the work.
bob youel  
#15 Posted : 16 June 2015 15:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

with all due respect it appears that yet again the tail [QA] is wagging the dog [H&S] ---- if management will listen try too persuade them that QA should amend its systems to account for the law and proper H&S and move on from there

best of luck
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