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Graham  
#1 Posted : 10 May 2012 14:58:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

Dear All
I’ve had a question from a new head of department and I wondered if there was anything out there to add to what I’ve got.

She said in her previous company she was required to sign a document saying she would not work on her laptop at home for more than two hours at a time. (Most of our senior people have lap tops so they can work at different sites.)
We’re talking about people who work on their laptops at home voluntarily, not ‘home workers’.
I’m also thinking of those who take their laptops to the café to work, (so they can drink, can’t at their desks) rather than use the docking station that all our laptop owners' have at the desks.

Given the trouble we go to about DSE assessments and the like this is something I’ve been worrying about when I’ve nothing else to keep me awake.

One policy I’ve heard is that if you work voluntarily at home you’re required to provide at your own expense a laptop stand, keyboard and mouse. It’s your decision to work at home not ours so you have to provide the wherewithal to be safe. If you don’t you’ll not be allowed to work from home! The check seems to be a signature from the person concerned and a countersignature from their line manager.
If you’re working on a laptop without these safety precautions then you must stop and take a break (undetermined) every two hours.

My senior management seem pretty relaxed about this but I’m thinking people will be complaining about sore backs, necks, shoulders and wrists pretty soon and then the questions will start.

Does anyone out there in the Health and Safe-osphere have anything they could share with me?

Thanks

Graham
redken  
#2 Posted : 10 May 2012 15:41:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

http://www.hse.gov.uk/re...rr_pdf/2000/crr00304.pdf

"In brief, our main findings are as described below. In general use, we found no differences
in the reported experience of discomfort between portable users, desktop users and docking
station users. We found a strong correlation between discomfort and hours per week spent
using any computer, and hours per week spent using a desktop, but no significant correlation
between discomfort and hours/week using a portable."
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 10 May 2012 15:47:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Here’s a question why are you supplying laptops to people who don’t need to work from home/away from the office?
If they don’t need to work away from the office, then they don’t get a laptop so the issue of taking the work home does not apply.
Graham  
#4 Posted : 30 June 2015 16:13:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

Just a belated quick thanks to redken, a most valuable piece of research, it will inform our discussion on this topic.

Thanks
Graham
jay  
#5 Posted : 30 June 2015 17:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

We have 3 categories:-
1) Those whose contract of employment includes home working--we provide the "kit" and ensure the DSE Assessment is done etc

2) Users who have been provided with Laptops due to a business need--foir example myself--I do not travel offsite on business, but with a company laptop can access the conmpany LAN more easily without need for an RSA Token--this category work from home or offsite occasionally

3) Users who use their own computers, can be their own desktops or laptops and work from home occasionally

For categories 2 & 3, we have a "checklist" they have to complete after reading the guidance ( which is simple) and have it available during office inspections.

There is no need to overcomplicate matters.

Even if they signed a pise of paper, you cannot police it!
jay  
#6 Posted : 30 June 2015 18:31:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It is my understanding that the year 2000 research report referred tio above was in part used as input to the 2003 second edition of the DSE Guidance L 26 , specifically Appendix 3, "Work with portable DSE" ( which was not there in the first 1992 edition)
aud  
#7 Posted : 30 June 2015 19:05:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Here's a radical approach:
Give people good advice on healthy working with IT.
Offer them a range of kit to help achieve a comfortable posture.
Emphasise your company requirement to report any aches / pains, or other problems ASAP.
Remind staff frequently to report any aches & pains etc.
Remind staff frequently to report any aches & pains etc.
Repeat as necessary.
Let them get on with it.

React to any report of aches, pains etc. immediately, and use energy saved from trying to treat everyone as if they may one day have a problem, to deal with the minority who do actually have one.
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 30 June 2015 21:20:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Good Lord, there are people out there working on construction sites head to toe in PPE with 30 degrees heat to contend with whilst doing manual work...worrying about people working from home with a lap top, is this what h&s has become?

walker  
#9 Posted : 01 July 2015 07:48:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Ray,

A bit unreasonable IMHO. Its a big issue when folks end up with life changing injuries due to poor posture and repetitive work.

In 20 years time I predict the nation will be full of folks crippled with damaged hands & thumbs due to "devices"; the "at work" element is quite small however. And maybe there is not much we can do about it (other than what Aud suggests).
stonecold  
#10 Posted : 01 July 2015 08:20:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

Agree totally with above post from walker.

I can think of a couple of cases in the last few years were we have had 2 employees diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome, directly associated with heavy DSE use.

Very distressing condition, that resulted in significant pain, the constant need to wear a splint, difficulty in actually doing their job, serious worries about job security due to capability, stress, and in one case several operations.

If compared to construction DSE can seem like a trivial topic but from my experience if not managed properly it can cause significant issues.



RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 01 July 2015 08:37:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Apologies if my frank comment has offended anyone.

I am, however, fully aware of the issues with carpal tunnel syndrome, WRULDS, etc. Working from home is a luxury for most which others for various reasons cannot do. I think there is a need to put DSE issues into perspective - just my thoughts.

Ray
Graham  
#12 Posted : 01 July 2015 09:10:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

Ok, for those who with some justification seem to be suggesting that DSE concerns are not worth worrying about:
RayRapp
Good Lord, there are people out there working on construction sites head to toe in PPE with 30 degrees heat to contend with whilst doing manual work...worrying about people working from home with a lap top, is this what h&s has become?

I quite agree there are, in some industries, more significant risks, there are in my company. Does that mean I don’t concern myself with these ‘so called trivial’ risks, absolutely NOT.
This is indeed what H&S has become we care about ALL the risks to which we expose our staff. Some we put more effort into managing than others, on a risk assessed basis of course.
And if you’d care to come and sit at a computer workstation of my design, I’ll have you in agony in a week.
Graham
chris.packham  
#13 Posted : 01 July 2015 09:33:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Just to open this one up a little! I travel more and more these days by train. I see many other travellers using laptops, sometimes for several hours, in somewhat cramped conditions. What do we do about these people. Do we ban laptop use on trains?

Chris
Graham  
#14 Posted : 01 July 2015 09:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Graham

To address Chris Packam's comment, I don't see that we can ban laptops on trains.
I guess all we can do is make people aware of the risks, tell them how to manage the risks, and get them to report issues as soon as possible.

I'm aware these are all behavioural controls though, and that this is the least useful control.

I don't see any way of a company managing this activity any other way I'm afraid.
I know my people will do this whatever I do to try and reduce it. They’ll use their own computers if they want to, and some do.

I’d love to have a better solution, but even getting acceptance that it is a problem is still a challenge, as witnessed by some of the comments here.
grim72  
#15 Posted : 01 July 2015 11:12:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

From another angle, I know there were several reports in the last 12 months about the concern that people were not switching off fro work when they got home (not a problem for me I hasten to add) and continued to answer to emails etc when they should be enjoying family time. This article was in the Guardian yesterday highlighting the problem: http://www.theguardian.c...work-productivity-health

OK so maybe not H&S related and more of an HR concern but still something that may be worth noting. Some companies have even started switching off their servers at home time to dissuade employees from accessing emails etc.
ttxela  
#16 Posted : 01 July 2015 11:14:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ttxela

I'm guessing those who are voluntarily using laptops at home (rather than those officially 'homeworking' ) are sitting on the sofa watching TV, up the dining table, out on the patio etc. etc. and wouldn't use a docking station/desk if supplied to them anyway.

How about those accessing work emails from their phone, they are probably sitting on the toilet, down the pub, walking the dog or hang gliding.

Technology is blurring work and home life to the extent it's impossible to manage all these types of risk since you can't reasonably exercise any meaningful level of control?
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