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LATCHY  
#1 Posted : 03 July 2015 07:51:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

How can it be proved that a persons stress, and the absence from work can be totally put down to the job or the work that they do every day, can any one advise me on this subject, I would like to know and understand how this can be quantified without having to take in other possible precursor that also may affect the persons every day well being, comments and advise please.
ptaylor14  
#2 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:01:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

LATCHY wrote:
How can it be proved that a persons stress, and the absence from work can be totally put down to the job or the work that they do every day, can any one advise me on this subject, I would like to know and understand how this can be quantified without having to take in other possible precursor that also may affect the persons every day well being, comments and advise please.


you`ll have to ask a doctor
JayPownall  
#3 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:02:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JayPownall

When completing my MSc we had a guest lecturer who I won't name - needless to say he was a very senior occupational health physician. When asked that very same question, he said that in essence you cannot prove if X causes Y when it comes to stress, as even minor stresses or daily stressors will mount up and amass, regardelss of their job or role. He accepted that stress is more prevalent and likely in people facing roles and those where emotional or physical effort is required and of course these roles may well contribute more to a persons overall stress, but given the modern world we live in, it is almost impossible to put some sort of number or ratio on work stress as a percentage of overall stress. Stress needs to be assessed and looked at in a much more holistic way. Part of the reason for many of the workplace wellbeing services on offer, is that employers are understanding that it is not always there job that is stressful, but a combination of all sorts, like childcare worries, ill health, finances or relationships etc etc. It would take a very detailed survey and a very honest staff member (IMO) to give you a result that you could use to quantify stress at work and give you a % or alike of total stress.
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:17:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

It's very difficult to prove that stress is solely work related or vice versa. Stress can emanate from a number of different sources both at work and in a person's private life. The reality is that it's often a combination of the two factors because they are inextricably linked. Stress is also very personal to the individual. In other words, what causes stress to one individual may not affect someone else in a similar way.

Some people cite stress as the reason for their absence because it's intangible or to conceal another possibly legitimate reason. Even doctors find it difficult to distinguish between stress, anxiety, depression, trauma and so on. Most doctors will not recognise the term stress as it is a non-prescribed general term without any medical definition - anxiety is usually the prognosis.

At the end of the day you can only take the person on face value. Discussing with them the cause of the stressors i.e. workload, bullying, harassment, etc, to see if there are common themes and trying to address these issues.
LATCHY  
#5 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:36:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LATCHY

The reason for the question in the first instance, is that I have received a sick note and the doctor has stated that the reason for the absence is "stress at work" which after reading the above paragraphs is quite hard if not impossible to quantify as being the sole reason, comments please
stonecold  
#6 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:45:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

without going too far off topic its the same with a few different types of medical issues...e.g. How do you prove someone has a bad back? I can think of numerous occasions where we have had employees take a week off sick, or in some cases try to put in claims due to a mysterious and sudden `bad back` issue. Its similar to stress as you cannot not physically see it. You have to take the persons word for it generally.
Sunstone  
#7 Posted : 03 July 2015 08:48:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Scotty C

RayRapp wrote:
At the end of the day you can only take the person on face value. Discussing with them the cause of the stressors i.e. workload, bullying, harassment, etc, to see if there are common themes and trying to address these issues.


Latchy - this is very good advice. Has anyone sat down with your employee and tried to ascertain the stressors in the workplace?
jodieclark1510  
#8 Posted : 03 July 2015 09:04:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

It can't be completely proven as stress is a subjective reaction- you would need to look at the job and what pressures are being laid on at present. It may be things going on at home are now impacting on work where there were no problems previously.
Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 03 July 2015 09:49:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

It can't be proved.

Stress = adverse reaction to (perceived) pressure.

That pressure is the sum total of all the little and large frustrations in that person's life...and when the pressures overcome that individuals ability to cope then stress symptoms will start to occur. These will be personal, work-related, home-related, friend-related and additionally change from day to day.
There is no genuine means of quantification - and if you have a magic method of understanding all the personal demons in a person's head then please let the psychologists know asap!


The workplace is the only one of those that has legal requirements you can call upon though and it is easy to fixate on any workplace stressors as being 'the thing that put me over the edge' since work is where you only spend a smaller portion of your comparative time. Completely incorrect of course but we humans are flawed that way.
chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 03 July 2015 09:58:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

This raises an interesting point with regard to occupational ill health. With accidents it is relatively easy to determine whether the accident was occupational or non-occupational. If he falls off the ladder on the construction site it is work related, if he falls of the ladder whilst painting the window frames at home it is not. Now consider:
There are 8760 hours in a normal year
If one works 50x5 days per week x8 hours per day, in that year this is 2000 hours
This leaves 6760 hours not at work
Add 192 hours for public holidays
This leaves 6952 hours each year not at work.
In other words (and I know it doesn't feel like it) the greater part of our time is spend away from the workplace.
We can be exposed to many health hazards at home as well as at work. How much of, say, that skin problem is due to exposures to irritant chemicals at work and how much at home. This is often impossible to state with any certainty. Same with respiratory exposures. Did he wear a face mask whilst sanding off that paint in the house? He might well have had to do so at home. So how do we diagnose the cause of the COPD?
And I haven't even touched on the problem of acute versus chronic!
This is a problem that I am frequently confronted with when investigating a suspected occupational skin disease. No dermatologist conducting a patch test can say with certainty what percentage of the skin problem is allergic and what irritant. So in many cases the diagnosis can best be described as an educated guess.
Of course, then it becomes a statistic that no-one questions!
Chris


aud  
#11 Posted : 03 July 2015 11:38:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Don't know your organisational structure, but I would ask your OH (if you have one) or HR (same) to contact the GP for more information, noting 1 & 2 below.
1) Stress is not an ill-health condition in itself, but can be a trigger to anxiety, depression, physical ailments etc.
2) The GP has only the individuals word it is 'work related' in any case and should not have phrased any sick cert with that term.

Tactics (whilst awaiting GP clarification) are exactly what you would do if you got information on any other 'work related' outcome such as bad back, skin condition etc. Investigate. In this case a conversation with the line manager and possibly others in the same team or job role as a first step.

The employer has to identify hazards and take steps if risk significant blah blah. So you are only looking to see if there is a stress risk component associated with the work. This could be from the job itself - social work, police as examples - or from the particular work environment - management or lack of, bullying colleagues etc.

If there IS evidence of the 'hazard' in the workplace you can also initiate further investigation around the individual - not done by you, but by LM and OH / HR - whilst you can raise the manager's awareness of HSE guidance and go from there.

If there is NO evidence of stress beyond that of just having to work (!) this goes back to OH / HR for them to do the pastoral support element as individual / domestic stressors are indicated. Then you record your findings as you would with an investigation into WRULDs etc.

Some people get 'stressed' at work because they no longer want to be there, or doing that job. I don't see that as work-related, although they might.
jodieclark1510  
#12 Posted : 03 July 2015 12:03:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jodieclark1510

Some people get 'stressed' at work because they no longer want to be there, or doing that job. I don't see that as work-related, although they might.


Surely that can be part work related- depending on the reasons given. I can imagine alot of people feel stressed about work for a variety of reasons- what if you don't get on with people in the office or your boss is a pillock and you take the brunt of things when its not your fault/responsibility, or you know things are going wrong but you dont have the authority to do anything about it? What is the job is too much or too little for them? Being bored is just as damaging as having too much on or not being capable of doing something
jay  
#13 Posted : 03 July 2015 12:14:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

Irrespective whether the GP Fit Note had Stress at Work as the reason or any other illness, it is the oragnisations return to work procedure after sickness absence that is the key one which is an HR responsibility and also trained managers & supervisors who implement the return to work, including "stress" aspect of return to work at the front line. Only after the return to work aspect has been dealt with can one have information on what to do.

Yes, there invariably are non-work related stressors.

HSE's formal definition of work related stress is:
"The adverse reaction people have to excessive pressures or other types of demand placed on them at work."

It goes on to state:-
Stress is not an illness – it is a state. However, if stress becomes too excessive and prolonged, mental and physical illness may develop.

jwk  
#14 Posted : 03 July 2015 12:24:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Hi Latchy,

I think you're asking the wrong question. The employer has to deal with hazards that are in their control, stressors at home are not in the employers control. Stressors at work are. HSE identify six workplace risk factors which can contribute to stress. Use their questionnaire (or a similar commercial model) to identify which of those factors are present in the workplace, if any. If they are, put procedures in place to deal with them. If you find that there is no evidence of these risk factors then you can start to ask questions about the person's general fitness for work and so on.

It doesn't matter what is happening in their home life; if there is a culture of bullying, poor communication, poor team support, presenteeism or whatever, and this is causing at least one of your workers serious psychological distress, then it needs to be dealt with. Dealing with any of HSE's identified risk factors for stress will improve conditions for everybody, so there's really nothing to lose,

John
BernDaley  
#15 Posted : 03 July 2015 14:39:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BernDaley

It is an interesting question:
I was eventually diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder earlier on this year. In simple terms, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder happens after a traumatic event involving a considerable amount of fear which most of the time your brain linked to childhood trauma.
While there is a link to my home life & history the source that started it was working in a war zone. My first sick note was “depression due to stress”. Over the years it has taken a lot of counselling, medications, tries & errors before the correct diagnose was finally reached after stress/pressure at work triggered another boot of depression/illness.
Mental health is a very difficult & sensitive subject with lots of stigma still attached to it. In these economic times a lot of employees will be very weary of such sick note & not necessary open to talk about it especially if the trigger is a manager attitude or some bullying in the workplace.
matelot1965  
#16 Posted : 04 July 2015 16:42:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Have a look at the bigger picture within the workplace to ascertain if you have a stress problem at work and not just for this individual as previously stated have a look at an assessment of performance from HSE stress management standards, accident and sickness absence data, complaints from employees, any grievances or disciplinary issues that you may have, information from staff questionnaires, staff appraisals, return to work and exit interviews and health surveillance data.

Hope that's right I have my NEBOSH diploma unit B exam on Wednesday anyone want to add anything else
KieranD  
#17 Posted : 04 July 2015 16:57:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Latchy

Assuming you use the online guidance from the HSE website, or other the enormous volume of other well-researched sources, to design a stress survelllance questionnaire to be completed quarterly by all staff at all levels, you can make an informed judgement about particular sources of work-related stress, if any, affecting any individual you oversee.

On the basis of this regularly updated database of iinformation, you are in a position to judge work-related sources of any particular individual and to take appropriate action accordingly.

Judging from your questions, maybe you need to upgrade the calibre of the questionnaire you use for monitoring stress levels. prescribed in the HSE Management Standards on Work-Related Stress 2004.

bob youel  
#18 Posted : 04 July 2015 17:34:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

Some really great answers here [as usual] so I am not adding much except to say that none experts e.g. GP's are seen as key players here where very very very few, in my experience, have the competence etc. to diagnose stress in any situation and this is a very very big problem we face so when looking at stress we should always get in an expert in the subject and read all the case law and guidance that U can about the subject and yes stress risk assessments can be undertaken but its a complicated and in many cases political area

As for HR; well enough said noting that the HSE has again let H&S professionals down

best of luck
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