Rank: Forum user 
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Can I ask does anyone think this will place more work on employers to chase up the licences of company drivers, and as anyone one used this system yet do identify if your company drivers have points? comments please
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Rank: Super forum user
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What work chasing-up?
Easy.
The driver (your employee) logs onto the website, enters his/her/its details and obtains a checkcode which the employer can use to check licence details.
Really hard work that!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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"You can use this service to:
view your driving record, eg vehicles you can drive, penalty points and disqualifications
create a licence check code to share your driving record with someone else, eg your employer or a car hire company"
https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence
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Rank: Forum user
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We only 6 drivers including myself but yes I have used the system and it was simple enough to use and save the info as PDF's.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bearing in mind the requirements of the DPA with respect to dissemination and storage of the information?
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Rank: Forum user
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Personally, I agree this is going to cause more work. Firstly, actually chasing them to complete the online check will be laborious. We then have to get their permission to access i.e giving us the code before we can actually view it. Initially, it is far more time-consuming than just asking them for a copy of the paper licence. Not easy when you have 50 engineers who do not have access to the net during working hours!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Borrowed a courtesy car from a garage on Wednesday. They asked me to supply them with my NI number, sight of the photo-license and date of birth. They then did the rest and I drove away in their car.
Very easy from my point of view. Probably 10 mins extra work for them.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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David Bannister wrote:Borrowed a courtesy car from a garage on Wednesday. They asked me to supply them with my NI number, sight of the photo-license and date of birth. They then did the rest and I drove away in their car.
Technically, I think they broke the law. You gave them the information they needed to impersonate you on the DVLA system. That is, it seems they have pretended to be you on a system that says only you should use it.
It is, however, a much more sensible way to use it - the 'right' way is apparently for you to previously connect and generate a code, then supply that code to them. The code can only be used once (so if, for example, you need to hire two cars in different places, you'll need two codes). Worse, the code is only valid for three days, so if you're going somewhere and you'll need to arrange a hire car more than three days in the future, you'll need to find internet access to generate the code while you're away.
DVLA seem to assume that everyone always has internet access everywhere.
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Rank: Forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:What work chasing-up?
Easy.
The driver (your employee) logs onto the website, enters his/her/its details and obtains a checkcode which the employer can use to check licence details.
Really hard work that!
Er, yes if you have 6000 employees...
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Rank: Forum user 
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I now use a web based service, costs £5 per person per check, all drivers complete an authorisation, results from DVLA database posted on password protected website. Have used since December 14 but working well so far, only hitch was for Northern Ireland license holders as process was different and cost £15 per head per check. Several companies offer the service just search for "driving license checking service". Our managers find it more efficient as they don't have to chase people to bring license in to check. The authorisation is valid for 3 years.
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Rank: Super forum user
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achrn wrote:David Bannister wrote:Borrowed a courtesy car from a garage on Wednesday. They asked me to supply them with my NI number, sight of the photo-license and date of birth. They then did the rest and I drove away in their car.
Technically, I think they broke the law. You gave them the information they needed to impersonate you on the DVLA system. That is, it seems they have pretended to be you on a system that says only you should use it.
It is, however, a much more sensible way to use it - the 'right' way is apparently for you to previously connect and generate a code, then supply that code to them. The code can only be used once (so if, for example, you need to hire two cars in different places, you'll need two codes). Worse, the code is only valid for three days, so if you're going somewhere and you'll need to arrange a hire car more than three days in the future, you'll need to find internet access to generate the code while you're away.
DVLA seem to assume that everyone always has internet access everywhere.
You haven't ?
Far north of Scotland?
And nothing technical about it. They effectively impersonated you.
And you gave them the information they need to so do again, at any time.
The system is designed to prevent impersonation and provide reasonably easy access, with security.
Anyway, at least you didn't give them your card and PIN number (did you?)
One assumes that the company employed to extract personal data from the DVLA system has secure data systems. You did check that?
Only you would seem to be the data controller in that case.....
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Rank: Super forum user
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achrn wrote:
Worse, the code is only valid for three days, so if you're going somewhere and you'll need to arrange a hire car more than three days in the future, you'll need to find internet access to generate the code while you're away.
DVLA seem to assume that everyone always has internet access everywhere.
They've now changed this to 21 days, I see: https://www.gov.uk/gover...from-72-hours-to-21-days
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for the link achrn. It appears that some form of common sense has prevailed at the DVLA.
I'm still having to argue with my Board of Directors that it's not OK to get staff to give consent for their manager to log in to the system with the staff's licence number, NI number & postcode (ie basically the manager pretending to be the staff member at the point of login). I've pointed out the potential data protection infringement but certain senior managers are of the view that because that's the easiest way to do it, it will be fine. In the meantime our line managers are in limbo regarding the checks.
And this was meant to be an improvement to reduce the burden etc etc ....
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have placed an enquiry with DVLA.
Obtaining the check-code does not require any information that an employer would not already have.
Therefore it seems the information is not secure.
I'll also query the ICO about it..
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Rank: Forum user 
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I still have my original paper licence which, thankfully, is still legal tender. Woo Hoo!
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Rank: Super forum user
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@ Piobaire - you may still need to get a print out of your driving record from DVLA before hiring a car due to the fact that recently acquired endorsements and penalties will no longer be put on your paper license. Your driving record will be held on the database like all those with photocard licenses. So if you are hiring a car they may still require a recent DVLA database printout because your paper license may not show the correct up to date history.
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Rank: Forum user
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I thought I should look into this since I’ve still got my paper licence. So I went on the site and found this at the bottom of the page:
“It’s a criminal offence to obtain someone else’s personal information without their permission.”
Which in the light of some of the comments here I thought was interesting. Does it mean I can obtain someone else’s personal information with their permission – I guess it does? So have the people who have allowed others to log on in their name been complicit in a criminal offence or not?
I keep clear of the law it’s a legal mine field. :-)…
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Rank: Super forum user
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Graham wrote:I thought I should look into this since I’ve still got my paper licence. So I went on the site and found this at the bottom of the page:
“It’s a criminal offence to obtain someone else’s personal information without their permission.”
Which in the light of some of the comments here I thought was interesting. Does it mean I can obtain someone else’s personal information with their permission – I guess it does? So have the people who have allowed others to log on in their name been complicit in a criminal offence or not?
I keep clear of the law it’s a legal mine field. :-)…
The gov.uk website is riddled with inaccuracy and over-simplification. It does not withstand interpreting to this level of precision, so don't try deducing anything from it. It's generally the least accurate summary of any topic, in my experience. Treat it as a Janet-and-John grade introduction to a topic, trust it no further than you'd trust a ladybird book.
For example: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/overview : "You must have motor insurance to drive your vehicle on UK roads." Not true. Road Traffic Act 1988 section 144 sets out situations in which such insurance is not required. http://www.legislation.g...kpga/1988/52/section/144
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Rank: Super forum user
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Which is hardly relevant. In lieu of valid insurance for each vehicle, they either have sufficient money to meet a claim, or fleet insurance.
Quite simply..if a person obtained another's details and enquired about that other persons licence details, they would be in breach of law. So how is a company any different?
Apart from the fact that many companies breach tax/H&S laws on a daily basis..so I suppose breaching data protection is a minor problem.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:Which is hardly relevant. In lieu of valid insurance for each vehicle, they either have sufficient money to meet a claim, or fleet insurance.
"For example". It's an EXAMPLE, an ILLUSTRATION of the fact that gov.uk is a shoddily put together website with lots of over-simplification and incomplete statements that should therefore not be minutely examined for word-by-word implications of the statements therein. That's why I said "for example". It's deliberately not a specifically relevant example, because that would not illustrate that it's a general shortcoming with the site.
JohnMurray wrote:
Quite simply..if a person obtained another's details and enquired about that other persons licence details, they would be in breach of law.
That's begging the question. The point of the question is to say, would they be in breach? Not necessarily. If a person provides personal data for a specific purpose and the data is used for that purpose, the user is not in general in breach of the DPA. The DPA does not forbid you from using personal data, it forbids you from using personal data for inappropriate purposes without the authority of the relevant person.
If a person obtained another's details by asking that person for the details, stating that they wanted them to look up records on the DVLA system, what part of the DPA do you think would be breached when that looking-up was then done?
If an employer pieced together the information they already knew, and used that to do a check, I think they would be in breach.
If the employee provides that information to the employer explicitly so that the employer could run the check under discussion, I don't think the employer would be in breach, though they may be breaching the licence terms from DVLA - but that would be a civil matter. Whether DVLA would be in breach is a different matter, and I think that's not clear - it probably hinges on the small-print in the documents from which DVLA obtained the data in the first place. It is certainly not as clear-cut as you make out.
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Rank: Forum user
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My understanding is the person who you are checking with a code etc needs to be with you when you undertake this check!!
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Rank: Super forum user
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You are missing a point.
The employer already has all the information, consent is not needed to access the information, consent is assumed by use of that information. The employee/licence-holder may not even know that the employer is going to access the data on the dvla system.
The check code is irrelevant once someone has the information, and the employer already has it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:You are missing a point.
The employer already has all the information, consent is not needed to access the information, consent is assumed by use of that information. The employee/licence-holder may not even know that the employer is going to access the data on the dvla system.
The check code is irrelevant once someone has the information, and the employer already has it.
When I gave my employer my address (including the post code) it was so they could send me letters, my NI number was given to them so that they could organise my tax's and paper driving licence was so they know my licence was valid at that time. This information was not given to them so they would go onto the DVLA website to check my personal information without my permission - if they do its breaking the law. Consent is needed because the 3 pieces of information was given to them for a different reason.
I think we may be missing the point here - the DVLA do have a system where you give permission to share your licence details - its using the 'check code' - the check code is totally relevant because it make it all legal.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:You are missing a point.
The employer already has all the information, consent is not needed to access the information, consent is assumed by use of that information. The employee/licence-holder may not even know that the employer is going to access the data on the dvla system.
The check code is irrelevant once someone has the information, and the employer already has it.
So what is the point you are trying to make?
Some employers have sufficient information about their employees that the employer could break the law? Gosh.
I don't see that this particular DVLA system changes that observation. Any organisation whose operations are in any way controlled by the DPA holds enough information about people to break the law, pretty much by definition (if they didn't, their operations would not be affected by the DPA). What is your particular objection to the DVLA system that makes it a sufficiently special case to be raising with the ICO?
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Rank: Super forum user
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The purpose of the new View Driving Licence facility is to provide drivers with read-only access to certain data held on their own driver record. This will enable drivers to check which categories of vehicles they are entitled to drive and to view any current motoring convictions. No medical information held on the driver will be accessible via the service.
The DVLA takes very seriously its obligations under the Data Protection Act to safeguard the personal data it holds. The information required to authenticate drivers before allowing them to view their own driver record is considered proportionate to the value of the data that will be provided.
Customers who know their driving licence number will be able to provide it along with their National Insurance number and postcode to access the service. Those who do not know their driver number will need to supply their first name, surname, date of birth and gender in addition to their National Insurance number and postcode. Much of the personal data that can be viewed on the driver record will already be known to the user as it will be needed in order to access the service or can be derived from the driving licence number itself.
(You mention that the personal data needed by the driver to view their own driver record may be known by others who do not have the right of access.) Unlawfully obtaining or accessing personal data is a criminal offence under section 55 of the Data Protection Act.
Extensive user insight testing has been carried out to understand and respond to any privacy concerns raised by consumers. In addition, the service will feature technical safeguards to prevent the automated harvesting of data and ongoing protective monitoring will help prevent and detect unauthorised access.
The DVLA is currently working with the Cabinet Office Identity Assurance Programme, which is developing a cross government identity verification solution. You may be reassured to know that it is our intention to introduce this solution as a means of validating the identity of drivers wanting to access their driver record online as soon as possible.
If you suspect a 3rd Party has abused the system, you can report it to Action Fraud on 0300 123 2040 (textphone 0300 123 2050) or via their website www.actionfraud.police.uk.
Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our Reply Form or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:
https://emaildvla.direct.../reply_form_drivers.html
When filling in the form the email reference number 3165330 will be required.
Regards
A Rees
DVLA Contact Centre
8 June 2015 - the counterpart is abolished
Since 1 Oct 2014, vehicle tax cannot be transferred when a vehicle is bought or sold
Use our free Vehicle Enquiry or View Driving Licence services to view information held on DVLA records.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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"The DVLA is currently working with the Cabinet Office Identity Assurance Programme, which is developing a cross government identity verification solution".
= Citizen ID cards
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Rank: Super forum user
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"When you use these services, you want to be confident that someone else can’t sign in pretending to be you, see your sensitive personal records or use your identity to make fraudulent claims. You want to be confident that your data and services are secure and your privacy protected"
https://gds.blog.gov.uk/...t-is-identity-assurance/
Like your employer using your information to access driving licence records without your permission.
You all know it will happen, or that they will use "umbrella" companies, like the Consulting Association (deceased).
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:"
Like your employer using your information to access driving licence records without your permission.
You all know it will happen, or that they will use "umbrella" companies, like the Consulting Association (deceased).
OK. So at least we've established that your working assumption is that all employers are evil and will break the law if they have the means to do so.
However, I'm still curious about why you think the DVLA system is a more egregious example of this than any of the other ways the employers could (sorry, according to you, 'will') break the law.
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Rank: Super forum user
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achrn wrote:
OK. So at least we've established that your working assumption is that all employers are evil and will break the law if they have the means to do so.
However, I'm still curious about why you think the DVLA system is a more egregious example of this than any of the other ways the employers could (sorry, according to you, 'will') break the law.
Did I say it was extraordinarily bad?
NO.
Just another in a long line of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" situations.
Hopefully, the oversite of the too-trusting dvla will soon be rectified by a one-instance use system.
As it stands they have chosen a system where someone (in this case an employer) already has the necessary information to make an illegal access. Stupid.
As for "criminal employers".....open your eyes......the list of criminal offence carried-out, on a daily basis, by employers, is long and distinguished.
Have I already mentioned the criminal blacklisting operated by dozens of UK employers (the greatest of the great)?
Then we can drop into the HOST of criminal breaches of H&S regs leading to serious injuries, deaths and diseases.
Fortunately, I am out of all that. But the health aspects of H&S deliberately being ignored because of [in]convenience and cost lingers on.
And it is not just the UK, it is worldwide.
You carry-on in blissful ignorance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JohnMurray wrote:achrn wrote:
OK. So at least we've established that your working assumption is that all employers are evil and will break the law if they have the means to do so.
However, I'm still curious about why you think the DVLA system is a more egregious example of this than any of the other ways the employers could (sorry, according to you, 'will') break the law.
Did I say it was extraordinarily bad?
NO.
So have you complained to the ICO about all the other possible ways employers could possibly abuse the DPA then? I was assuming not, and I was assuming that 'actions speak louder than words', ie if you've done something about this but not about all the others, you think this is worse than the others.
Obviously if you have complained about each and every way that an employer could breach the DPA, my comment is invalid. What did the ICO say about all the others?
Although some employers have broken some laws, I don't think that means that all employers break all laws at every opportunity. I think you're saying you disagree with that. I'd find it very depressing to live with that view of humanity, myself.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As I understand things at the moment.....there is currently a complaint about the dvla system at the information comms office...doubtless things will eventually progress somewhere...sometime.
Meanwhile...back at HSE, where the low hanging fruit is under constant attack while entire industries run complex blacklisting ops....and inspections have dropped by 91%.....
No doubt many employers run perfectly legal businesses, no doubt they will soon be undercut out of business by the ones who do not...
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