Hi.

I have a question regarding the automatic closing of a roller shutter door that operates approx 20 seconds after a fire alarm being activated, it has an independant warning sound and flashing light. It is approx 2.5m x 1.5m opening, normally used for tea trollys to and from the small kitchen area. This door has a fire rating of 60 mins.

I ask the question that in the automatic unmanned lowering of the door (Due to fire safety), it will not stop if it encounters an obstruction. Apart from telling people, putting signs up, having a warning light and sounder, should this not have an Edge Safety device fitted irrespective of it being a fire door?

Trying to find the requirements to have this rather than risking out - elimination rather than raising the risk of a crush to either a member of the public, staff, vunrable persons etc.

Any help would be appriciated - If this was mine, the device would be fitted but need to know the legislation.

Thanks in advance

Hi
I will leave it to one of my more informed colleagues to advise you on the legalistic side of this, I can only share with you my experience in this regard.
I to had an issue with this, all our warehouse roller shutter doors would close automatically if for what ever reason the fire alarms went off resulting in some occasions of a forklift truck being struck by a descending shutter door. We fitted a delay system on the shutter doors with a light warning system, if I recall it was set to 8 secs. If the opening is only for the use of tea trolleys etc. why could you not use fire doors with automatic magnetic closing devices.

Totally agree, the kitchen is only 5m x 2m with no gas, or electric cooker,m just a toaster and microwave. I as not part of the initial setup, and just there at handover, the fire bloke said it did not warrant a safety edge as it would restrict its original use... burnt toast???

I see this slightly differently.

What is the purpose of the fire shutter? Does it form part of a more extensive fire barrier between two parts of a site?

20 secs is more than enough time for everyone to be well clear of the closing door - a 5m x 2m kitchen will be evacuated well before the door operates. If not, why not?

I accept that traditionally, fusible link operated shutters should not operate when the public were in the building. However this is the 21st century and this is now acceptable. Furthermore I totally disagree that fire shutters should not be used on escape routes.

Shutters used widely in atria and other open plan buildings to protect escape routes, and therefore they operate immediately upon an evacuation being signalled from the fire alarm system - with the building fully occupied. Many large offices and department stores use shutters and fire curtains to protect means of escape in this way

I had a dispute with a London council's licencing dept where a means of escape from sleeping accommodation was via a staircase and through a retail area (The retailer did not want fire doors between shop and stairs). The solution was a drop down fire curtain which was designed to immediately fall and separate the retail area from the stairs, requiring those using a staircase from the sleeping accommodation above to use an alternative route via continuing down to the basement.

The council said this solution was non compliant. I argued it was legally compliant but simply didn't meet the council's own policy which isn't the same. I won!

This curtain had a device fitted which may help the OP. A IR beam was fitted in the proposed path of the curtain. If it was broken for more than 20 seconds, a local alarm would sound. This was to prevent stock from the retail area creeping under the curtain, but allowed the beam to be broken 100s of times a day as people walked momentarily to/from the staircase. It was very effective

Toe - as mssy says are more common that you 1st think and are widely used on escape routes - may out-of-town sheds will use these doors and particular between back and front of house.

Some retailers will use them to get around the 2000 sq metres for sprinklers (not Scotland though).

if you TD's are fine and there is adequate mean of escape - I see not reason not to use them as I say they are very common in all types of buildings.

Thanks all for your helpful advice. It seems they are going to manage the issues with notices, and induction with a 20 sec delay, noise and flashing lights. Therefore management decision has been made, this I have recorded for the record but will consider raising the issue on every visit

JP

Not on an escape route

JP