Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi all,
I'm after some opinions on a disagreement, and for once i'm the one taking the more "practical" approach! :-)
Basically, we are building an asbestos enclosure outdoors which is in the region of 2m high, 2m wide and around 10m long, so not big by any means. As enclosures themselves are very lightweight (just lightweight timber frame and plastic sheeting) we are looking into fitting a scaffold tube "Outer frame" which is essentially the same size to make it heavier and stop it blowing away.
My argument (as the H&S Manager) is that we do not need to employ a scaffolder as this is not a scaffold. It is just a simple frame used to add weight which just happens to be built from scaffold tubes. No one will be working on it, it will not be loaded and will not be used as edge protection.
However, to bring in an asbestos licensed scaffolder to do this, as our supervisor is suggesting, will not only cost money (first to build it, and then to inspect it every time the enclosure is moved), but it will also hold up the job by a fortnight whilst they wait for their ASB5 to go live. Whilst I naturally want this to be done safely and legally (and am happy that he's being so cautious), I'm reluctant to hold things up and bring in a third party if we don't need to.
I'm up to speed with my scaffolding related bits and pieces (TG20, SG4, EN12811 etc etc) but can't see that any of that would apply when this is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a scaffold. It's just a frame.
Who's right?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Further to my original post, i gave a couple of alternatives which (for various reasons) would be less practicable but, in the context of this argument, totally "legal":
-Build the outer frame out of heavier timber
-Have a bespoke metal frame fabricated
-Use some sort of click-together key clamp system
All of these methods, in terms of risk whilst installing, are no better or worse than using scaffold poles yet could be done, quite happily, with no question of training. However, the mere mention of using scaffold poles as a material seems to make people panic!
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Why not use paving slabs if you just want weight?
Anyway, I say no it doesn't require a scaffolder, because the legislation isn't about who can assemble scaffolding, the legislation is all about requirements for work at height, and this is not about work at height. However, a scaffolder might actually put it together quicker and more reliably than anyone else, so I might actually use one anyway.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As I understand it the asbestos licensed scaffold would only be needed for the structure within the work area, as you state this is not a real scaffold structure just frame. Due to the way scaffold poles are constructed not sure actually how much weight they would provide. What you really need to do is look at the wind loading the structure is going to take and then calculate what weight is required to hold the tent down. Or you could just stick a couple of 2 by 4's on it and keep your fingers crossed it does not blow away!
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Rank: Super forum user
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s
I have done what you suggest on many an occasion with no problem however make sure that the loadings and structure is fit for purpose and put together properly as noted by BH
when approached many years ago by a HSE construction specialist about something I had approved he could not get his head around fabrication and engineering techniques with regards to the use of steel tubes [steel tubes is what such scaffold is made of really] as he had no experience of engineering/engineering techniques and he did not know how to calculate steel tube loadings etc. - once everything was explained e.g. what we had was not a scaffold as all we were doing was using steel tubes; he went away NB: we bound the tubes together [as per proper RE style] in addition to the clips used just to keep the inspector happy
best of luck
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I agree with your argument that this is not a working platform/scaffold for the purposes of work at height- you propose to build a temporary frame.
My thoughts wandered more towards protecting the enclosure from the elements and potential for puncture by scaffold components, etc. I wondered if an inflatable over- structure might serve here?
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Rank: Forum user 
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We used scaffolding tubes to construct weather protection whilst working on generators. We did use scaffolders to put up the frame (approx 4m x 2m x 2m), however, that was because we have them as part of our organisation and they can get a bit precious about their equipment. Once erected the frames were covered. Whilst the frames were up they were not subject to the usual scaffold inspection regime as the components were used to construct a temporary frame and not a scaffold.
Hope this is useful.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi
If as you have highlighted there is a potential for the enclosure to be at the mercy of the elements would it not have made more sense to construct the frame work for the enclosure with tube and fitting for greater stability and as you are aware you require a design for the scaffold frame work if you are going to add poly to it in an external location,
My problem would be that constructing additional scaffold tube and fitting to add stability to the enclosure what happens in the event of it taking flight my first question would be why didn’t you build the enclosure out of more robust materials (Tube and fitting ranch board) and was the individual who added the scaffold to your enclosure competent to do so?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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achrn wrote:Why not use paving slabs if you just want weight?
Anyway, I say no it doesn't require a scaffolder, because the legislation isn't about who can assemble scaffolding, the legislation is all about requirements for work at height, and this is not about work at height. However, a scaffolder might actually put it together quicker and more reliably than anyone else, so I might actually use one anyway.
Is this an example of sitting on the fence?
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