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simplesafety  
#1 Posted : 13 August 2015 09:55:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simplesafety

Hi all Ill be inviting an electrical engineer to site to commission and install a new machine. What should I ask for as proof of competence? is there a compulsory scheme such as gas safe for the electrical sector?
paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 13 August 2015 17:45:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

SimpleSafety wrote:
Hi all Ill be inviting an electrical engineer to site to commission and install a new machine. What should I ask for as proof of competence? is there a compulsory scheme such as gas safe for the electrical sector?
Nope nothing like GasSafe, electrical is a free for all. If it's machine works though, then being an expert in BS7671 is irrelevant, so none of the schemes registering electrical installers will be relevant. So, no use asking for NICEIC, ECA, NAPIT, STROMA, BSI ELECSA, etc. none of these are relevant to machinery as they all assess to BS7671 which excludes machinery under the machinery directive from its scope. A few questions to ask yourselves/your contractor. Whose machine is it? Is it used or new. Do you have all the documentation? If new why is the manufacturer not commissioning. What experience of the machinery does the "engineer" have. Has he done this before? Is "he" employed, self-employed, or a "1 man" Ltd. Co.? Is he adequately insured for the work he is to do? Is there design changes, or just install and commission to manufacturers instructions? Is the machine CE marked? Is it/can it be installed and commissioned in accordance with PUWER98 requirements?
imwaldra  
#3 Posted : 14 August 2015 12:57:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

Do you mean 'engineer', or actually a technician? Paul's regular postings demonstrate that he know his stuff in detail in the electrical area. In contrast I'm in no way a specialist. But, if you really need an engineer, then check for evidence of a relevant degree, membership of IEE or equivalent, and recent CPD. If it's a technician, as I suspect is more likely, then evidence of a recognised practical qualification, e.g. apprenticeship, plus knowledge and experience in the required installation standards, including for isolations & any emergency stops as required by PUWER would be my 'generalist' starting point.
simplesafety  
#4 Posted : 14 August 2015 13:11:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
simplesafety

Thanks both your responses so far. He's from a company that has designed and built a machine for us, they are simply here to position and level the machine then hook up the power etc. So he should be very familiar with the equipment. It seems low level work I just wandered if there was any evidence I should definitely ask for in the future, I think you have both answered the question for me. Thanks
Evans37942  
#5 Posted : 14 August 2015 13:37:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans37942

I don't disagree with anything stated before but to sum up think this is the old chestnut: Competence i.e. knowledge, experience and training. It would be advisable to request recent evidence of all three from the employer and ask for details of similar work undertaken for others that you can follow up / verify. Finally: ask for sight of a recent risk assessment / method statement for similar work.
paul.skyrme  
#6 Posted : 14 August 2015 17:25:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

SimpleSafety wrote:
Thanks both your responses so far. He's from a company that has designed and built a machine for us, they are simply here to position and level the machine then hook up the power etc. So he should be very familiar with the equipment. It seems low level work I just wandered if there was any evidence I should definitely ask for in the future, I think you have both answered the question for me. Thanks
If he is making the actual connections to the fixed installation wiring, then it is totally conceivable that these would be covered by BS7671, which would then terminate at the machine main isolator. In which case you would require certification for the final connection under BS7671, and the person undertaking this work must be competent under BS7671. If the machine has been designed and built for you then you will have all the machine manuals etc as required for the CE marking. Part of this should really be the RAMS for the install and commissioning from the supplier. They will be deeming their personnel competent. You could IMHO take the documented "word" of the supplier that their people are competent to do this. I know when I was commissioning CNC machinery & automation control systems, & doing field service works, we would not be sent on a job by our boss if we were not safe to work on the kit. We might not have known all of the technical idiosyncrasies of the equipment, but we knew the basic function, and enough to work safely, the lack would have been in efficiency rather than safety. Also, our employers reputation relied on our competence in doing the work, so we were well trained and equipped to ensure that we would not make silly mistakes, safety wise or technically. We were a global "blue chip" kind of company, working across many industries, from fellow global companies, down to micro businesses.
boblewis  
#7 Posted : 15 August 2015 09:23:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

One could look at it this way - I have employed a company to design, manufacture, install and commission a machine. This person, employed by them, is simply a further part of the contract to supply. I can therefore rely on the competence of the supplying organisation to verify the person they send. If you cannot then the organisation itself ought to have been deemed non competent.
ianm69  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2015 12:42:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ianm69

And ask for his risk assessment (RA) and documented SSOW... Often they dont have a docuemnted RA one, but if you must, can help them write it if non-existence but be careful, or encourage his 'membership of professional body' to help him. Just dont select them as they are the cheapest and then dont appear to have any controls etc. I do remember reading somewhere (okay a few years back in ACOP) that we do have to check speciifc trades certificatiosn like sparkies, gasmen, high hazard work. Can anyone point us in which ACOP we seen this, I think it even mentioned these valiant trades peoples
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