Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user
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Now [officially] standing at 112 dead and 95 missing.
Many websites/blogs stating the numbers are much higher have been closed down by the state.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I'm surprised at how much "they" are letting the world see. Usually they black these things out entirely.
The lessons to be learned for the UK:
"red tape" is probably there for a good reason.
If we continue to allow cowboys to break the law, it won't be long before we have an incident like this near you, very soon.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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We don't know the cause as yet, but it's probably fair to say some other counties do not have the strict health and safety regime we do in the UK. It's only a matter of time (and disasters) before they introduce legislation to prevent these occurrences, such as Bhopal, Jilin, Chernobyl, etc.
However we are not immune in the UK, red tape or not, Buncefield springs to mind.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Buncefield could have been avoided if the "authorities" had applied and "policed" the regulations.
I was thinking more of the regular "major fires" we see at waste disposal sites.
Plastics & tyres particularly.
For the past 150 years the UK has "introduced legislation to prevent these occurances" hence we should be fairly well protected from them.
Problem is. career politicians (and company owners) ignore anthing that has not happened within their living memory.
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Rank: Super forum user
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In emerging economies, it is not that there are no regulatory requirements, it is just that the enforcement is lax and varying degrees of corruption. This may be a wake-up call, but whether it is sustained in the long term is another matter
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Rank: Super forum user
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I'd agree with that Jay.
My point is there is something to be learned for the UK.
Every UK reported H&S death or life changing injury I read about, I think (and I'm aware it is with hindsight) "that could have been avoided if there had been sufficent enforcement".
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Rank: Super forum user
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Enforcement alone will not prevent accidents and incidents. There needs to be commensurate sanctions for those who are found guilty to act as a deterrent for others. Then there are social attitudes, condemnation, insurance premiums, retribution, all adding to the cocktail of compliance.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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RayRapp wrote:Enforcement alone will not prevent accidents and incidents. There needs to be commensurate sanctions for those who are found guilty to act as a deterrent for others. Then there are social attitudes, condemnation, insurance premiums, retribution, all adding to the cocktail of compliance. The sanctions need to be highly public as well in order to get the message out there. Recently there was a high profile news report of a young lady who sadly lost her life jumping off a bridge with a bungee or rope around her ankles. All over the TV and Radio. But the other day were we discussing an incident on this site from some time ago where an apprentice had died while cleaning a lathe, while it was operating. I don't recall that on the news.
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Rank: Super forum user
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RayRapp wrote:Enforcement alone will not prevent accidents and incidents. There needs to be commensurate sanctions for those who are found guilty to act as a deterrent for others. Well that's one thing the Chinese are better at than us. I predict that, at the end of the investigation of this terrible accident, the firing squads will be busy.
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Rank: Super forum user
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walker wrote:RayRapp wrote:Enforcement alone will not prevent accidents and incidents. There needs to be commensurate sanctions for those who are found guilty to act as a deterrent for others. Well that's one thing the Chinese are better at than us. I predict that, at the end of the investigation of this terrible accident, the firing squads will be busy. That's the truth!! Not sure whether that is a deterrent or just retribution.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Not sure how many firefighters were killed, last I heard was 21 with some still missing and more injured.
The way our UK fire services work now is to risk assess and stand back before taking action, that could have saved a few lives if they followed the same procedure, we just don't know.
With there being two explosions there was a similarity to 9/11 where the first firefighters went in only to be killed when the first tower collapsed, in this one the second explosion would have killed the first responders.
Very sad
Being ex fire service I feel for their families and loved ones.
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Rank: Super forum user
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walker wrote:Buncefield could have been avoided if the "authorities" had applied and "policed" the regulations.
I am sorry, I really dislike this attitude of blaming authorities and regulators every time something goes wrong. This view seems pervasive in society and seems to excuse poor performance by those who are truly responsible. How many times do you hear of some awful tragedy when some poor child is neglected by it's pathetic parents, and the media turn on social services or the Police for failings - when in fact, its the parents who have failed and should shoulder the burden of responsibility. Likewise, Buncefield was caused almost entirely by poor management of H&S and dreadful maintenance regimes which was the soul responsibility of the operators. So that statement above should actually read: "Buncefield could have been avoided if the "operators/owners" had applied and "policed" the regulations"
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Rank: Super forum user
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walker wrote:Buncefield could have been avoided if the "authorities" had applied and "policed" the regulations.
I am sorry, I really dislike this attitude of blaming authorities and regulators every time something goes wrong. This view seems pervasive in society and seems to excuse poor performance by those who are truly responsible. How many times do you hear of some awful tragedy when some poor child is neglected by it's pathetic parents, and the media turn on social services or the Police for failings - when in fact, its the parents who have failed and should shoulder the burden of responsibility. Likewise, Buncefield was caused almost entirely by poor management of H&S and dreadful maintenance regimes which was the soul responsibility of the operators. So that statement above should actually read: "Buncefield could have been avoided if the "operators/owners" had applied and "policed" the regulations"
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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China may not have the greatest H&S record around, but their penalties can be harsher than most, hanging (mine owner several years ago). I expect this may be repeated in this case.
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