Hi All, Have been going back through our accident reports. In particular there are 2 accidents which I have queries on: 1 x back injury (would appear IP did not use lifting equipment) and manually lifted - off for 12 days. 1 x knee injury, IP was in operation of FLT device, turned to do his safety check and knee popped resulting in him being off for 26 days. Looking under RIDDOR they do not fall under the specifics but still classed as over the 7 day incapacitation period? the time off has come from the sick notes HR was presented with. Would appreciate your thoughts on this one.

1. Would need more info as not all back injuries are reportable under RIDDOR even if they have 7 days off 2. If the knee just popped as a result of the IP turning I would not report this as no accident as such occurred, nothing happened that was work related to cause the accident. Injuries themselves, eg ‘feeling a sharp twinge’, are not accidents. There must be an identifiable external event that causes the injury, eg a falling object striking someone. Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as ‘accidents’ under RIDDOR.

I use the quick guidance supplied by the HSE at: http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/key-definitions.htm

The first one is reportable - the injured part manually lifted and hurt their back. I would report it. Even if they didnt use recognised lifting equipment. The second one is up to the company to report and would depend on further facts. Was there sufficient room to turn, were there obstructions preventing free movement etc.

I concur: The back injury, even though not your fault, is reportable under RIDDOR. Although, having said "not your fault" did no one notice him not using the lifting equipment for 12 days? The knee - no, not reportable. In order for this to be a work related accident it is fairly imperative that there is an event. Turning does not constitute an accident unless the person is holding a heavy load or something of that nature. This is one of those freaky things that happens and I would not report this.

My take on this subject, Quote from HSE page on RIDDOR, What is meant by ‘work-related’? RIDDOR only requires you to report accidents if they happen ‘out of or in connection with work’. The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is ‘work-related’ if any of the following played a significant role: 1. the way the work was carried out 2. any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or 3. the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened So 1. Injury to back – Did it happen while the IP was working? Yes, Point 1 above, it doesn’t matter that he wasn’t using the correct lifting equipment, the fact that it was available but not used is poor supervision. Due to the IP injuring himself whilst manual handling loads at work and being off work and unable to carry out his usual duties for over 7 days because of it, means it’s reportable 2. Injury to Knee – again did it happen while the IP was working? Yes, IP was in operation of FLT device, turned to do his safety check and knee popped resulting in the IP being off work and unable to carry out his usual duties for over 7 days because of it, means it’s reportable

I do worry sometimes when H&S 'professionals' come out with complete opposite statements to one another. Incident #1. Was the lifting activity work related (ie. required to move the item for his employer)? If yes, is it work related? Of course it is. Is it reportable (if over 7 days off or transferred to other duties)? Of course it is. Incident # 2. Was conducting the safety check part of the operators duties identified by his employer? If yes, is it work related? Of course it is. Is it reportable (if over 7 days off or transferred to other duties)? Of course it is. Doubt me? Ring the HSE and ask them! After all, it is they that enforce the regulations.

I wouldn't bother ringing the HSE to be honest, we did and the people on the end of the phone had no idea on Weil's disease for instance (RIDDOR incident contact centre) as we had a suspected case.

Really? It worries me when people are unable to correctly identify the tests they need to apply to RIDDOR and the definitions that accompany them - hence the consistent inconsistency. RIDDOR tests: a. Was there an accident that caused the injury? b. Was it work-related? c. Does it meet one of the various reportable criteria? If you start at (b) or even (c) then you are doing it wrong. If you can show me the accidents, as defined by the HSE, in either #1 or #2 then you might be able to convince me they are reportable (although #2 still fails the work-related test too in my opinion). FROM THE HSE website (again for the second time in this thread): Injuries themselves, eg ‘feeling a sharp twinge’, are not accidents. There must be an identifiable external event that causes the injury, eg a falling object striking someone. Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as ‘accidents’ under RIDDOR.