Rank: Super forum user
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Scenario: employee with full beard wanting to use a half-face respirator. Normally, and in accordance with all the usual guidance, I would not even consider face fit testing but would just look at the other options instead (exclusion from hazard areas, hood type respirator or shaving).
However, our face fit tester was persuaded to do a qualitative fit test which was an unambiguous pass.
Given the face fit result, is it still right to prohibit use of the mask? What is the justification for this, really?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Your first thoughts are correct
Your face fit tester should be stood down until he has been retrained as he clearly does not understand his job or why he is doing face fits.
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Rank: Forum user
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Timely. We have recently taken on a number of new employees so we conducted (via external consultant) fit testing yesterday. One of the new guys has a full beard, another also failed due to 3 days stubble growth :-( Now in a......ahem......debate with production supervisor after I expressed my disappointment that his personnel failed to heed the request to turn up clean shaven. Production supervisor now asking me if he should not hire anyone with a beard.
We have another bearded guy who has a hood so looks like we'll need to invest in another one for the new beardy guy. As for the stubble guy who failed, retest for him next week where he promises to attend clean shaven.
Not sure if you've seen it Kate but there is a comprehensive study by HSE in effectiveness of masks versus time without shaving. On HSE website, look for RR1052. My take, based on my skimming of it last night, would be that it would be difficult to countenance and/or justify the use of any close fitting RPE on anyone wearing a beard. Even, I'd suggest, irrespective of the results of the fit test that your guy somehow passed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Wclark,
Where I have needed RPE I find positive pressure RPE (what I assume you mean by hooded) a better & easier to maintain control for everyone.
In answer to your supervisor's question I would say: " thats the least of your problem matey! how are you going to ensure your current crew are always clean shaven when using RPE?"
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kate wrote:Scenario: employee with full beard wanting to use a half-face respirator. Normally, and in accordance with all the usual guidance, I would not even consider face fit testing but would just look at the other options instead (exclusion from hazard areas, hood type respirator or shaving).
However, our face fit tester was persuaded to do a qualitative fit test which was an unambiguous pass.
Given the face fit result, is it still right to prohibit use of the mask? What is the justification for this, really?
Sorry Kate can't be an unambiguous pass on a qualitative test. the guy could just be lying about tasting the bitrex or saccharin to get his own way
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Rank: Forum user
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walker wrote:Wclark,
Where I have needed RPE I find positive pressure RPE (what I assume you mean by hooded) a better & easier to maintain control for everyone.
In answer to your supervisor's question I would say: " thats the least of your problem matey! how are you going to ensure your current crew are always clean shaven when using RPE?"
RPE is not regularly deployed, just a small subset of our tasks require it. The majority far prefer close-fitting masks citing them to be more comfortable/easier to use. With that in mind I'll not be looking to further upset the apple-cart by suggesting that we throw them away and get hoods for all.
It's quite a small workforce and generally the guys understand the need to achieve a good seal with their RPE and they do seem usually to groom themselves appropriately to allow that to be achieved. I did explain that some places of employment where RPE is regularly worn mandate that those using close-fitting RPE must attend clean-shaven at the beginning of every shift.........he advises that he'll give further consideration before hiring any bearded men (or ladies) in the future.
Me and the supervisor are butting heads on all sorts of issues. He's 'old school' and sees H&S just as pain in the ass. We're going around the houses currently regarding confined space working and he keeps harking back to the old days when 'we just got in a did what needed to be done'. I counter with the reasons why that was a wrong approach and he begrudges every single 'obstacle' that I put in front of him. Happily the MD is largely on board with my way of thinking.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The bitrex etc test is "just" confirmation that the face fit training is understood and properly carried out.
To get an adequate seal you must be clean shaven
If you are not clean shaven the training cannot proceed
The pass is the understanding of how & why the RPE fits properly, not avoiding the taste sensation.
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Rank: Forum user
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This topic has been a thorn in my side for many years. When I worked offshore I insisted on all personnel being clean shaven if they were part of the emergency response team, whereby they had to wear BA sets. If personnel needed a close fitting RPE mask for work tasks, one of the control measures, included on their permit to work would always be "RPE users must be clean shaven" If an individual had a full beard he could not be face fit tested and as such could not use close fitting RPE and would be provided with an alternative, although this was a rare occurrence.
I prepared a ppt. on the topic and ensured all personnel were shown it to explain the reasons for the clean shaven requirement. After seeing the information and evidence, most of the workforce realized it was for their benefit and as such accepted the requirement. It is one piece of information I wish was made prescriptive legislation but sadly those days are gone.
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Rank: Forum user
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We have recently gone through a similar issue. We use air fed respirators in some production areas but those who infrequently work in those areas or work there for short duration have to wear close fitting masks. We went through the education piece and still had people who did not want to shave, they were then reminded of the risk assessment findings and the PPE policy that included RPE and the requirement to be clean shaven.
In the example of maintenance personnel, our biggest resistance, we told them that as they do not work in the areas every day then if they were required to do so they could shave in work and would be given time. We still had resistance such as we'll need 30 minutes and are we paying for their shaving kit (£70 a month each was quoted). So they were told in no uncertain terms that if they failed to follow their training, risk assessments findings and the PPE policy then there was no work for them and they would be sent home, needless to say problem solved.
The disappointing part for me is we did a lot around education and engagement through both the H&S committee and the individuals but it took the threat of being sent home to resolve it. But to be fair to them I haven't had an issue since.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thankyou for all the responses. This leaves me thinking - just how good is the fit test anyway? (BTW I have reasons to think this test wasn't faked.)
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Rank: Forum user
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I am a trained qualitative face fit tester after recently completing the course with a recognised provider.
On the course we were required to be tested ourselves which I duly completed (hood and Bitrex). The disposable masks were not suitable for me but the half masks were suitably effective.
Oh! Just for clarification, I have a beard (albeit short). So it is possible to achieve a suitable seal.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This beard isn't a small one, it's positively magnificent!
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Rank: Super forum user
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saferay wrote:I am a trained qualitative face fit tester after recently completing the course with a recognised provider.
On the course we were required to be tested ourselves which I duly completed (hood and Bitrex). The disposable masks were not suitable for me but the half masks were suitably effective.
Oh! Just for clarification, I have a beard (albeit short). So it is possible to achieve a suitable seal.
from HSE website about competent testing:
"Facial hair – stubble and beards – make it impossible to get a good seal of the mask to the face."
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Rank: Forum user
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a small beard, such as a goatee, which can be wholly contained within the mask, allowing a full "skin to mask" contact and seal is quite acceptable. Some mustaches may also be acceptable.
Beware of facial scars, missing teeth etc.
Keeep breathing
Merv
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Rank: Super forum user
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Many people with a beard will pass the face fit test using Bitrex or its sweet alternative. This is solely down to the method used. The Bitrex is sprayed in in the form of an aerosol and it is the very tiny droplets that get around any gaps between the face and the mask. With a beard the aerosols become trapped in the beard and do not reach the mouth/nose area. However vapours or gases will pass through the beard. That is why HSE say that beards are a no no.
Take care
JohnC
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Rank: Super forum user
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John, that is an excellent explanation. Thankyou!
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi all,
Ive been reading this post with interest and my apologies for jumping on it, but does anyone know of any case law, tribunals etc that have come from someone being disciplined as a result of refusing to shave for no good reason??
Thanks
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Rank: New forum user
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Carrietobin - I'm sure I read on this forum of a vigilant HSE Inspector taking an individual/Company to task because the operative had a disposable respirator in his pocket in case he needed to use it. Unfortunately he had stubble on his face which would have reduced the effectiveness of the respirator and this prompted the intervention. Perhaps somebody can confirm/refute the story but it would be interesting to get the details if it is true.
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Rank: Forum user
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Carrietobin wrote:Hi all,
Ive been reading this post with interest and my apologies for jumping on it, but does anyone know of any case law, tribunals etc that have come from someone being disciplined as a result of refusing to shave for no good reason??
Thanks
I have not heard of any, however surely the HSWA 1974 would be a good defense for any employer...
Section 2 - General duties of employers to their employees.
(1)It shall be the duty of every employer to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare at work of all his employees.
(2)Without prejudice to the generality of an employer’s duty under the preceding subsection, the matters to which that duty extends include in particular—
(a)the provision and maintenance of plant and systems of work that are, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risks to health;
(b)arrangements for ensuring, so far as is reasonably practicable, safety and absence of risks to health in connection with the use, handling, storage and transport of articles and substances;
(c)the provision of such information, instruction, training and supervision as is necessary to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety at work of his employees;
(d)so far as is reasonably practicable as regards any place of work under the employer’s control, the maintenance of it in a condition that is safe and without risks to health and the provision and maintenance of means of access to and egress from it that are safe and without such risks;
(e)the provision and maintenance of a working environment for his employees that is, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe, without risks to health, and adequate as regards facilities and arrangements for their welfare at work.
Section 7 - It shall be the duty of every employee while at work—
(a)to take reasonable care for the health and safety of himself and of other persons who may be affected by his acts or omissions at work; and
(b)as regards any duty or requirement imposed on his employer or any other person by or under any of the relevant statutory provisions, to co-operate with him so far as is necessary to enable that duty or requirement to be performed or complied with.
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