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DaveBridle  
#1 Posted : 28 August 2015 14:36:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

I am having a bit of a dilemma regarding my interpretation of CDM 2015. The company I work for is responsible for outfitting in a marine environment.

Under CDM 2007 we were exempt as we fell within the definition of:

The following is NOT considered construction work:
• Work to or on vessels such as ships and mobile offshore installations.

However CDM 2015 has removed the list of exemptions (as far as I can see). My interpretation of the CDM 2015 Regs is that we now fall within them as the regulations are:

Part 1 Introduction – Section 2 – Interpretation – Sub-Section 1(a):
• “construction work” means the carrying out of any building, civil engineering or engineering construction work and includes—

(a) the construction, alteration, conversion, fitting out, commissioning, renovation, repair, upkeep, redecoration or other maintenance (including cleaning which involves the use of water or an abrasive at high pressure, or the use of corrosive or toxic substances), de-commissioning, demolition or dismantling of a structure;

My main dilemma is that there is no reference to vessels or ships - so does CDM 2015 apply in our circumstances or not ????

p.s. Before anyone raises the alarm bells - we do have a fully certified and accredited BS 18001 OHSAS Management System along with H&S Site Safety Plans....
paulw71  
#2 Posted : 28 August 2015 15:15:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

I would look at the definitions of structure. If the vessel on which you are working does not meet with the definition of a structure laid down in reg 2,a or b, then I would consider that it falls outside of CDM 2015.
Ready as always to be proved wrong though.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 28 August 2015 15:16:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Comfort:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/of.../legislative-changes.pdf

(page 2)

"Regulations made under the HSWA apply offshore only if they contain a clause
which says so explicitly. Each set of regulations details the extent of their
application offshore by reference to the relevant articles of the Order."
paulw71  
#4 Posted : 28 August 2015 15:26:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

Ignore my post.

My theory falls down as soon as you install a scaffold on a boat I think.
paulw71  
#5 Posted : 28 August 2015 15:28:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

Or ship for the nautical pedants.
firesafety101  
#6 Posted : 28 August 2015 16:16:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

A boat is a watercraft of any size designed to float or plane, to work or travel on water. Small boats are typically found on inland (lakes) or in protected coastal areas. However, boats such as the whaleboat were designed for operation from a ship in an offshore environment. In naval terms, a boat is a vessel small enough to be carried aboard another vessel (a ship). Another less restrictive definition is a vessel that can be lifted out of the water. Some definitions do not make a distinction in size, as bulk freighters 1,000 feet (300 m) long on the Great Lakes are called oreboats. For reasons of naval tradition, submarines are usually referred to as 'boats' rather than 'ships', regardless of their size and shape.

Wikepedia. I just googled and am now a fully qualified smart ass ha ha

Bottom line is you can erect a scffold on a boat.

Thank the lord it's Friday.
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 28 August 2015 17:00:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Boat v ship: I thought initial distinction was by number of sails. 3 or more =ship.
bob youel  
#8 Posted : 29 August 2015 08:01:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

When a ship, boat etc. is operating under its captains directions undertaking its normal operations then as far as I am aware [I worked on ships years ago so things may have changed] maritime law and no other day to day law applies however when substantial work is undertaken by a third party and the ship etc. is not operating in its normal way under the direction of the captain then other laws that are specific to the actions undertaken apply e.g. gas welding a set of burst boiler tubes on land or in a dock where the ship is tied to that dock and not operating normally is a CDM activity however undertaking the same activity under the direction of the captains Chief Engineer whilst the ship is sea going under its normal activities is not CDM - phew complicated is it not!!

NB: Recently I received a written communication from the HSE stating that CDM 2015 now applies to some commercial diving [I advise in this area since the mid 80's] activities where CDM & H&S construction laws never applied before as the work was covered by diving law ----- on the face of it this does not sound like much but trying to find PD's etc. with underwater working competence that charge a reasonable fee rate is harder than finding Father Christmas and the added cost of competent PD's to most jobs is completely inhibitive -- just my rant
DaveBridle  
#9 Posted : 01 September 2015 16:09:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

Thank you all for tour various inputs. Although some were slightly off-topic.

I can understand that where offshore works are undertaken the CDM2015 is not applicable. However we tend to undertake more when a large cruise ship is either in a wet or dry dock.

As ex-Royal Navy I was aware of the Ships and Boats argument - boats always went underwater !!

paulw71 - your pointer at the definition of a structure was most helpful.
SNS  
#10 Posted : 01 September 2015 21:29:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SNS

From working in a shipyard building from scratch, HSE viewed them as construction until floating and under the command of the crew.

Including Fire Risk assessments etc etc

For refits, until they were dry docked they remained boats and under maritime guidance. Once dry it became construction ....
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