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KJC  
#1 Posted : 10 September 2015 09:38:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
KJC

Hi Everyone,

Need some advice please!

I work in a woodworking factory in Wales, and I've just had PAT testing completed on our hand tools and office equipment.

How often should I get our large fixed machinery (saws, sanders etc.) tested?

Many Thanks,

KJC
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 10 September 2015 10:43:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There is a cogent argument that fixed machinery does not require PAT. I believe 'fixed' machinery will include hard wired and earthed. By definition PAT stands for Portable Appliance Testing.
hilary  
#3 Posted : 10 September 2015 11:11:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

This comes under fixed installation and fixed appliance testing. The recommended frequency is approximately every 3-5 years for your environment.
Invictus  
#4 Posted : 10 September 2015 11:14:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Didn't the rule use to be if it has a plug it is portable, so PA testing would apply. I know it is not a legal requirment. We used to go for 3 monthly as part of the service agreement and then when the LEV was tested.
Hally  
#5 Posted : 10 September 2015 11:20:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

Depends on how it is fixed to the electrical source i suppose.

We have small saws etc with 110v connectors so can do those but the larger machinery are covered elsewhere.
KJC  
#6 Posted : 11 September 2015 10:37:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
KJC

Thank you all for your replies.

The machinery is connected to 3 phase 415V plugs, and I will look at getting them tested soon.

Many thanks :)
paul.skyrme  
#7 Posted : 11 September 2015 13:55:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

KJC,

Be VERY careful with what you do with 400V industrial equipment with regards PAT.
This is not covered on the C&G "PAT" courses in any detail.

The C&G course & the IET CoP for In Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment is not geared up to cover industrial machinery either.

To give you an example, I was called out to a "dangerous" machine recently that had been tested by a qualified "PAT" "engineer" and deemed to be faulty.
The client was at this point in big trouble as it stopped a whole production line.
The guy had failed it on earth leakage.
However, the machine had earth leakage by design, it was performing exactly as it was designed to do by the manufacturer.
There was no fault with the machine what so ever.
So £1000’s of lost production because the “PAT” person did not understand the equipment under test.
I was able to demonstrate this to both the client & their PA testing person, as I understood the machinery, and it’s function.

For example, you may, have d.c. injection braking within the equipment which will have components that, can, under certain circumstances, be damaged by the "PAT" equipment if not carefully used, electronic components for example.

I suspect the equipment will be PUWER98 compliant, or there about, so it will almost certainly comply with EN60204-1, and have emergency stop devices, independent start and stop controls (stop & emergency stop may be combined), so to "PA test" such equipment safely & effectively again is not really covered in the C&G course, nor the IET CoP.

This can be a complex area.

Such machinery is not covered by BS7671, so it is not part of a "normal" electricians training these days, as few are trained in machinery & equipment, BS7671 works are the focus.

Machinery under the Machinery Directive is covered by EN60204-1 which has subtle differences to BS7671.

Also, to be able to correctly test such equipment “normal” “PAT” “equipment” is not really suitable.

Whilst it is fixed equipment, as it is not covered under BS7671, which limits its “authority” by its own scope to exclude machinery under EN60204-1, it would not normally be inspected and tested as part of a periodic inspection for an EICR under BS7671.
Especially as I said earlier many electricians, even those with the C&G I&T courses, 2391/2392/2394/2395/2396 & equivalents do not cover the aspects of such machinery.
These courses are not designed to as they are only designed to cover BS7671 works.

A few months ago I took another electrician, very experienced, very competent, and very qualified, in fact, he used to teach the C&G I&T qualifications to a site.
He looked at some machinery with me, he was there to look at work on the fixed installation originally.
He made some assumptions and comments on the machinery, based on his knowledge and experience of BS7671, which he was amazed to learn were totally incorrect!

So beware.

You are in Wales I see, if you would like to discuss any issues please PM, I might be able to offer some guidance, I do a lot of work in your industry with machinery and equipment, however, I am in South Wales.
ballyclover  
#8 Posted : 13 September 2015 19:40:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ballyclover

Here where i work, we until recently had all portable equipment tested (pat) and all fixed equipment tested (fat) this was belt and braces and above and beyond our obligations. We had been seriously effected by an electrical fire in the past so we tend to go over board. Anyway, i decided after consulting varies materials and actually speaking to sparkies that the need varies depending on industry and use. I choose to under go 10% test or one day test which ever comes first. We mainly test items such as kettles, microwaves, daily use items. Pcs and monitors are checked every 2 years. There is no, as far as i could see, set number on the amount to be tested. We also undergo a full DB inspection every 3 years.
KJC  
#9 Posted : 14 September 2015 08:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
KJC

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your detailed answer, I will send you a PM shortly.

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